I remember the Packers game we had like 8 drops, but the most crucial drop on the game that would of lead to the win was that play. It was a crossing route he was wide open for an easy TD that would of won the game. I think with a 14-2 record with SOS and conference tie-breakers would of had the division locked up. Holmes isn't even a top 10 WR and we are paying him top 10 WR money. I think Braylon caught the toughest passes IMO. Those high ass throws only Braylon could jump up and get it. He's a "play-maker" I understand that, but he's not worth the cash we are giving him. My tag was created before he got his official number, I'm going to have to get that changed ... I didn't even notice that really till just now hmy:
You are always gonna have guys making more money than perhaps they are worth.Just like there are always gonna be players who are justified in feeling underpaid. Value vs. performance is constantly changing. Is Holmes overpaid? Yes he is. And 10 years ago under different circumstances...I might agree that he needs to go. But this is 2012. The game has changed. Team Salary structure has changed. You must have playmakers. Multiple playmakers. Diverse skill sets capable of winning match-ups. The way the league is going..Holmes contract structure will likely be par in the next few years. The demand for playmakers has sky rocketed. On a team that LACKS explosion..in a league that CRAVES skill...it seems almost suicidal to go to such great lengths to push a player like Holmes out of town.
Draft new young players to build around our new QB in 2014 / 2015. Holmes is pushing 30 anyway, rather get new young pieces to build around for this offense. Cut Holmes in 2014 and draft a new WR. 12.5 million for a #2 WR. This is horse shit. Unbelievable how people support a #2 WR that can't win one on one without someone on the other side that can stretch the field. 12.5 million? We are practically in rebuilding mode offensively anyway. Now after we cut Holmes if he wants to come back on a cheaper more cap friendly deal then so be it. He's making too much money. We are losing Landry and Revis because of it too. Holmes should be cut in 2014, especially if Mark is gone.
Holmes wins 1 on 1 battles every single week. Is it every play?No..do they always get him the ball?No. But he quite often gets open downfield. You make it as if finding playmakers is this simple task. Take a look at our roster & the number of skill position draft picks we've missed on. Any playmaker this team has at this stage should be treated like gold. You have yet to explain beyond the fact that he is overpaid & a not a # 1 WR..why Holmes leaving is anything but counterproductive.
Nice post, Kurt. You see, there are times when I completely agree with you. Well, perhaps I agree with what you said, but I guess you will not with what I am about to say. I give Holmes a break, to some extent, for what attitude problems he does have (which as you say are vastly overblown). Because I think what attitude problems he has had result from the fact he is a winner and is frustrated by having his Qb be one of the two or three worst in the league. In other words I am sure I would not havea great attitude if I were in Holmes's position, either. Many Holmes Haters are Sanchez Fans. But Sanchez Fans hate pretty much anybody on the team other than Sanchez. They certainly complain about everybody other than Sanchez. Now of course I am not saying you have to be a Sanchez Fan to be a Holmes Hater. They just have gone together pretty much the last two years here.
Holmes, stats have dropped off every year since 2010. He is nothing special on the field combined with his attitude. He is a poor teammate that quits when the going gets tough. There was a time when #10 was a hungry player. #10 got paid, the hunger is gone. The flip to the 49ers was the nail in the coffin. Kerley practically had a flipper for one hand this season and he still made huge impact plays; displaying character and clear desire to be an instrumental player on the offense. I think Kerley and Holmes have the same amount of 100+ yd games. Kerley, may even have more.
And of coures I agree with these excellent points, too. Good work, Kurt. "Our O sucked! So let's get rid of our best skill player on O! Just watch how great we become overnight!" Such thinking is deranged.
You grossly overstate problems with Holmes. From all that is said he works with younger players a good deal in camp. Before he got hurt last year he was on his way to a productive season, with Muck Sanchez as his Qb. And as I said I would hate being the #1 wideout on a team where the Qb was Sanchez, too.
I completely agree that Sanchez is a huge problem. I also place blame squarely on Holmes. Copping an attitude, taking plays off, and certainly throwing the football to the other team adds nothing to the offense. Big money is given to a player to go out and catch footballs, so go out and catch footballs. Holmes, is a distraction that even a stronger franchise was unable to control.
Holmes doesn't win 1 on 1 battles each and every week. He disappeared for weeks on end in 2011. Yeah I'm going to pay a player 12.5 million dollars a year for a WR that can't even scratch 1000 yards, let alone 900. I didn't see Holmes get open down-field in 2011. All I saw was constant pouting and complaining while he calls everyone on the team out for not doing their job. His attitude in the Eagles game was atrocious down 21-0 we score a TD and he does his stupid dirty bird flaunt like c'mon. Jets are better off without those players. You support a player that does that week in and week out? I'm positive he was bitching when he didn't score week 1 against Buffalo also. If we have a good scouting department and if Idzik can do his job without much input from everyone else (Woody, Rex), I don't see why he can't find skill players and plug them into his scheme or vision. Steelers find play-makers all the time like Brown and Wallace. Victor Cruz came out of no-where. Go through the draft process and rebuild the offense. Holmes can be replaced and should be replaced in 2014. He's not worth 12.5 million, who else produces at such a low level with such a high salary cap? Again, I like Kerley's potential as a slot WR, him and Holmes again have the same skill-set and I would like to see Kerley in a more prominent role here as a NYJ. 12.5 for a #2 WR, meanwhile Revis and Landry are about to walk out that door? Tell me was it really worth it? I don't think so, not for 700 receiving yards in 2011. We are losing players at the expense of his and Sanchez's contract.
If Holmes was so clearly the huge problem you are invested in crying about, then perhaps you can explain why the team did not do better with him gone? Take out the Niners game, since he did not play all of it, and the Jets were both losing before he went out and continued after he did. Before the Niners game, with Holmes, the Jets were 2-1. After he went out, with his so-called distraction no longer a problem, did the team do better? No. Much worse. 4-8. OF COURSE there were other factors. But it seems that in terms of how they did with him and without him, a Holmes Hater such as yourself does not seem to have the facts on your side. Give it up.
Deranged? You're delusional. You think that paying a player 12.5 million dollars for a #2 WR role is worth it. We sorely lack play-makers I agree, but Holmes isn't much of a play-maker and I haven't seen any big time plays like we did in 2010. He did have that nice EZ catch in Jacksonville in 2011 if that means anything Newsflash people, we aren't winning jack shit next year. Get rid of this guy in 2014 so we can have more cap-space to get better players and more importantly MORE DEPTH
The only reason I bumped this thread is the fact that now the owner is 'shopping' Revis, a true play-maker. Holmes, sucks and his antics will continue on and off the field, guaranteed. Sucks that we are stuck with uno cero and sucks even more that bc of the front loaded money we are going to lose a really great New York Jets player. At least, Tanny is gone #idiot.
I am a Holmes hater bc if the guy actually played like he is fully capable of playing I would root for him. Instead, when the going gets tough or even when a few plays don't go his way, he turns into a bitch; mentally and physically removing himself from the team and the game. The man injured his foot, fell to the ground holding his knee, while untouched, projected the football into the air. How this guy got captain? how this guy got paid? how this guy is still a member of the team and still praised by idiots in our fan base? #10=garbage man.
No, you are doing it all wrong! He's our only "play-maker" and there's no way in hell the Jets ever draft another play-maker ever again! Supposedly he's great with the young-ins, and has a positive influence on the field. If he were great with the young-ins, Stephen Hill wouldn't be catching balls with his body.
Save your breath..or typing in this case. They clearly don't grasp the proper way to build a football team or the current landscape of winning in the NFL. They are completely blinded by hatred for Holmes & are incapable of seeing the bigger picture. It's not about harboring as many playmakers as possible...It's about a supposed bad attitude & celebrating after a first down. Ya know..trivial things that you & I both know are meaningless but others fixate on as a means of roster achitecture.
I thought the subject was whether the team would be better off without Holmes and not merely because you think he is overpaid. I thought we were also talking about his attitude, which as I have shown is a stupid thing to argue about. And ftr the Jets do not at present look to have a cap problem in 14, anyway. And yes, it is deranged to get rid of the team's best skill player on O as the first step to making it more productive. Becuase it won't. As far as whether he is overpaid or not, it is very difficult to make that argument looking at Holmes's stats in a vacuum, because since 10 he has had next to no support. He has an awful Qb throwing to him. He had no real #2 opposite him all of 11. He seemed to be constantly double teamed. You do not seem to take those rather obvious considerations into account.
I know you are right. There is a large element of irrationality in the personality of the Holmes Hater. In addition to what you refer to, the fixation on a subjective assessment of the play where Holmes had his season ending injury, was in pain, shows a lack of fairness and context that underlies what is basically an irrational and subjective hatred. No answer for how the team did much worse without Holmes. No answer to how the Jets are supposed to stock up on playmakers on O with him gone with all the other holes on the team to fill, and presumably with MS still the QB. Instead we get unhelpful comments about cutting him to get more cap space in 14 when that won't be a factor. I give up on this one, at least for today.
So now it's Holmes fault that hill looks like dog shit? Your hate is as obvious as it is irrational. You can blame him all you want for the contract tanny gave him, but in the end he just took the money offered. You can blame him for his antics on the field and that is well deserved. When you start blaming him for the shortcomings of the other receivers your just acting like a upset little child.
Again who pays 12.5 million for a #2 WR? His attitude sucks after he catches a first down, his cap-hit sucks, and he complains every year. what a great way to build a football team! Again, we are building a football team. We aren't going to the SB in 2013. His attitude isn't just the issue, that's what I'm pointing out here. We are better off without Holmes in the long-run. Kerley can come in and catch 50 balls for 700 yards and 8 TDs. That's what Holmes did as the feature WR in our offense in 2011. This offense won't be productive in 2013, I think it will be better then this previous season, but we would have to strike gold on this draft on each offensive pick, hope whoever wins the starting QB actually produces, and have good offensive line unit. You think all of that will happen this off-season? I don't think this offense will be average or good until 2014 when we cleanse the cap, create depth and acquire a QB in the draft. Holmes will be here in 2013 we all know that, but after 2013 he should be cut. We can draft a new WR or pick up one in FA that can actually WIN one on one each and every week, because Holmes wasn't doing that in 2011. http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=WR&y=2014 12.5 million can get us Josh Morgan and Jeremy Maclin. With money left over for other players. 2 players for the price of one, with more depth.
