Responsibility matters, but at some point it comes down to risk/benefit, doesn't it? Cars are much more deadly than guns, but they also provide far more common utility. Guns are in the home for protection. But it is more likely that the gun will be used to hurt/kill someone you love in the house than an intruder. To put it another way: Gun not in home, chance of gun injury to loved one - 0% Gun not in home, chance of family being hurt/killed by intruder specifically due to lack of gun in home -- very, very low Gun in home, chance of family being hurt or killed by gun -- very low, but higher than the chances of an intruder killing family Gun in home, chance of "saving your family" from an otherwise inevitable end -- very, very low For the record, I don't care if people want to have guns in their homes. I just won't. Not with young kids around. Doesn't matter how responsible I am. Never mind that it's just feeding into the whole fear culture thing, which I can't stand. It's smart to have a gun because OMG WHAT IF SOMEONE TRIES TO RAPE/KILL YOUR FAMILY IN YOUR HOME?! Tune in at eleven.
Barry and everyone else.... Well as many of you know we had a Lt with Las Vegas Metro shoot and kill his 5 year old son and his retired police officer wife. My head is still spiining over this one, that Lt was my Sgt for 6 years of my life, the guys on my squad (all 8 of us) are like brothers. He was a cops cop and for this to happen a few days ago I am floored. I know this is about Newtown Conn but this one in Vegas hits home for me really hard. Hell his wife my my drill Sgt when I went through the acadamey 12 years ago...just fucked up situation all the way around
WOW! that's sad. I am sorry to hear this. It must really be difficult to deal with when it's people you know. What were the circumstances? I haven't heard about this before.
You guys are funny. You need to get out more. Have you ever heard of castle rule? My weapon of choice is one I inherited. My dad's M1911 that he was allowed to purchase upon his discharge from the Army Air Corps in 1945. Soldiers and airmen were allowed to purchase their weapons for three reasons: 1) reduce surplus weaponry; 2) provide a memento of their faithful service; 3) because they could, and our Constitution allows it. It is nickel plated, heavy, and feels good and balanced in your hand. It was his, now it is mine. And if you force your way uninvited into my house, I can flatten you, call the cops and drink a beer. They'll shake my hand and dispose of your body. My neighbors have guns. Which ones? You'll die trying to find out. My advice is this: stay where you are. Don't come down to Ohio with your sob stories about blah, blah, blah. I'm not alone, either. It's the same in Kentucky and West Virginia. Your castle, your right to defend it. I don't take my gun outside my home, except for cleaning and regular firing, and my kids aren't even aware I have it. And some day, this administration be damned, I'll pass this Colt .45 onto my son.
Thats probably the hardest part to deal with, I worked with this guy for 40+ hours a week for 6 years. As a cop you really are like family, we spent our days off together and had each others backs during work. Lt Walters was the first guy coming to your aid and didnt hesitate to get dirty at all. From what we are being told he shoot his son, then he shoot his wife. He lit the house on fire and called 9-11, when officers arrived he was standing in the door way with a gun. He yelled some stuff at the responding officers, turned around went into a room and killed himself. I only new his wife during our 24 week academy and then she retired in 2005 I think so I never really worked with her. Granted outside of work she was just a relly laid back cool woman. I can say that I didnt see this coming, he snapped and three people are gone now... Not to make excuses but as cops we see shit and deal with things that most people would even want to know. Hell 12 years ago my second day out of the acadamey I had a guy kill himself right in front of me. I still remember his name, what he was waering, he had 2 black labs and 2 gold fish. It took me almost shooting the fuckin vacuum in 2009 in the middle of the night to speak to my wife about that incident...
This is something that I've been reading a lot lately. Almost all these shootings have been linked to someone taking an antidepressant with crazy side effects. These drugs have nasty side effects that will give people suicidal and homicidal thoughts. I am sorry, guns need people to pull the trigger, you think maybe we should stop handing out antidepressant medication to our youth because they had a hard time at school or someone is making fun of them on facebook. The real issue is learning to deal with the mental problems of these kids without doping them up. I will tell you right now these big pharmaceutical companies are tied into politics and make billions doing so. You will never see these drugs taken off the shelf’s because it made a few people go crazy.
I posted a link to the story onf the previous page, it's a very sad story. Had me in tears when I saw it. I've done many things with the Metro family having two family members who work for them and it really hits home when you have a child the same age. You're stuck searching for answers that you will never get. I can't even imagine what you guys deal with, a friend of my ex wife's had somebody pull the trigger while they were on the phone with dispatch their 1st week out of training. Even though my ex wasn't the one on the phone it shook her up. She hasn't had anybody pull the trigger or kill themselves but she deals with some pretty disturbing stuff on a daily basis but that pails to what our officers see and deal with. People think that in Las Vegas everybody lives the high life and it's a great place to live. The truth is this is a dark scary place once you get away from the glitz and glamour of the strip. I see and hear things on the news and from people that blow me away. There are thousands of people wondering around without their meds on the streets ticking like a bomb ready to go off.
Not a chance. You need to chase down whoever is dropping that stat. If there are +/- 300 million firearms in this country, there's just no way to get that math done.
Where did you get those stats? The risk of being killed by a terrorist attack is probably much lower than all of the "very very low" ones, yet we stop at nothing to try to prevent them. There is no cost that equates to protecting your family. That is priceless, despite the chances being very very low as you say. If you think of your family's lives as a cost vs benefit scenario, I honestly don't know what to say. You make an investment (far less than a car cost), and worst case scenerio, the thing collects dust and you wasted a few thousand bucks at most. Best case scenerio, it saves your life. If you keep it locked up, the risk of the gun being used to kill a loved one is ridiculously low barring mental health issues of course. How about this: An armed man breaks into your house. Chances of surviving with a gun are much greater than without it. That's the only stat that matters. No weapon = no chance, especially if they have one. I'd rather have a fighting chance than just hide in the corner awaiting the inevitable or hoping to best somebody in hand to hand combat when they have a weapon.
You think you have less chance of getting hurt or a family member getting hurt during a robbery or a confrontation with an armed robber? Chance is not statistical evidence. Very few people are trained to actually be able to shoot to kill under duress. Chances are pretty good that unless you are very good with a gun which for most gun owners isn't the case you are putting yourself and your family in more danger. While I have no doubt some can do it, my personal experience with gun owners is very different.
That's the only stat that matters? Wouldn't it be nice if that were so. Life is not lived broken down into isolated situations, though. And humans are notoriously bad at making these kinds of predictions. Notoriously bad. Penny-wise, pound foolish. I strongly disagree that there is no cost that equates to protecting your family; you just don't realize them because you consider it to be "common sense" instead of a cost-benefit analysis. You're still doing it... you're just doing it subconsciously and instinctively. (Keep in mind, though, that this is far different from doing it accurately.) For example, why don't you put up barbed wire fence around your property, land mine the back yard, and install retinal scanners? Your family would be more well protected from break-ins. You can wrap your children in bubble wrap and never let them leave the house. You can never drive anywhere, ever. You can test every food sample that comes into your house to make sure that nothing is poisoned or contaminated. You choose (I hope) not to do those things because there are varied costs associated with them... costs of aesthetics, convenience, quality of life, etc. And the reason you think my suggestions are ridiculous (I hope) is because they do not seem well-suited to address the problems given the associated costs relative to the risks. Every decision you make is cost/benefit analysis, whether you want to call it one or not. Not having a gun in your house increases the risk of something very bad happening if there is a break-in. Maybe. (Some robbers - I'd even wager most - are probably more interested in taking your shit than they are in purposely hurting anyone.) Having a gun in your house increases the risk of something very bad happening regardless of whether there is a break-in (even if that risk is very very low). It's up to you, of course, to weigh the risks and make your choice. But don't pretend it's not a choice... that's it's something you HAVE to do because THAT is how important your family is. That's simply not true. If it were, you'd have those land mines and bubble wrap. (As a quick aside, you're exactly right that the risk of being killed in a terrorist attack is very very low. I think we spend far too much time/money trying to prevent them.)
One idea out there for school shooter defense: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/smoke-screens-to-prevent-school-shootings-proposed-by-uk-company "The pitch describes the company's innovation, a security smoke screen system developed in the UK in the 1970s to deter thieves from snatching gold bullion in special bank vaults. When a button, switch, or other mechanism is triggered, a network of pipes bolted to the ceiling above quickly pump out thick clouds of non-toxic white smoke. "Can't see it? Can't steal it!" the company says. More than protecting precious metals, the smoke system has proved to be effective in "raid scenarios" as well. The company proposes installing one smoke system for every classroom linked to remote controls in teachers' pockets. When a gunman enters the school, teachers would corral their students into the corners of their classrooms, hit the button, and wait. "A very unique UK solution to a US problem," the company reminds readers. Here's a list of the benefits, as laid out by Concept Smoke Screen: - Smoke Screen protects teachers and children by hiding them so they cannot be targeted. After training and regular drills, they would quickly be able to create this 'blanket' secure in the knowledge that it is completely safe to breathe and reducing any potential anxiety that might be caused by the effect. - Smoke Screen provides a level of soft confrontation and confusion to the would-be murderer. They do not know if there is a fire or if it's toxic, they can't see, their instinct tells them to get away from it. - Smoke Screen can be set up so as to drive the gunman out into the corridors where it is easier for the authorities to deal with them. Because it looks like smoke (technically it is a thermally generated fog), there is more chance that the emergency services will be called, sirens blaring."
Some people can't chew gum and walk at the same time. It doesn't matter. You can't make laws in society that do nothing but protect idiots and people incapable of handing stressful situations. If you have a gun and take training classes for it, you have a much better chance of saving your family's lives than you would without it. Bottom line end of story. I'm pretty sure classes are required in a large amount of the states to own a weapon regardless, and if you don't learn how to use a weapon you buy, then you are a dumbass. If you don't like guns, then don't buy them, don't lobby to put all kinds of taxes and restrictions on guns and ammo that do absolutely nothing to fix the real problems in society (not saying that's your position, but that's what much of the media is talking about). Guns are just a scape goat for stupid human behavior like many other things.
How is a gun going to help save your life? Are you going to shoot the intruder's bullets out of the air? Or kill him first just in case he poses a threat? Sure, people say they'd kill to save their family, but taking a life is, I suspect, a lot harder to do than to talk about.
It's simple logic. You are better protected against an armed invader with a gun than without one. I don't think it's possible to deny that. Why do all of the above when you can simply buy a gun? I'm not saying you should be armed to the teeth and illegally put landmines in your back yard. That's stupid and irrelevant to the conversation. A gun is not a big investment (way cheaper than a car), certainly worthy enough to protect your family. If I could afford a high tech security system I'd get one. No need to be an extremist about everything. There's nothing wrong with owning a gun, if you are a responsible person. Nothing. I don't know why everyone paints it as evil. Objects can't be evil, its the intention of the person using it. No, it's not a maybe. It's a definitely. You are better protected with one than without one in the event of a burglary or worse. I'm assuming the owner is responsible and mentally stable of course. Otherwise they should not buy one. Not if you lock the gun in a safe that only you have the code for. If you aren't a moron, the risk is ZERO. When you hear about people accidentally getting shot it's always because they did something STUPID. It's not just because there's a gun. People do all kinds of stupid shit. Just watch 1000 ways to die. Should we ban every single thing in those episodes because people are just too stupid to conduct themselves in a responsible manner? I never said it wasn't a choice, but your examples are extreme and ridiculous. Guns aren't that expensive compared to other things you use EVERY DAY that are more risky. Cost vs benefit? It's still worth the cost. You pay around 20 grand for a car plus insurance, registration, license + gas, that puts your entire family at risk. You could spend a couple thousand for a gun plus ammo and training classes. That's less than 1/10th of the cost, and a much much much lower risk of anything bad happening than a car. Cost vs benefit says yes.
Well, if you're a squeamish scared person that can't handle conflict, you probably shouldn't buy one. You are in your house, first of all. You have home field advantage. You can use the element of surprise. You don't just run out there yelling and screaming and engage in a gun fight. I wouldn't hesitate to kill a man that posed a risk to many family. :lol: at shooting bullets out of the air. You shoot the person before he shoots you. I'm not saying it's a given, but you definitely have a better chance with one than without one. Anybody denying that obvious fact is extremely delusional and just going along with the media on this nonsense. When people are responsible and use their brain in life, they are generally in a good position. I am of the mindset that I'd rather have and not need, than need and not have. Nobody wants to be that guy hiding in the closet with his family as an armed man searches the house. The first thing that guy is going to be thinking is, "Damn, I wish I invested that small amount of money in a gun, now we're all going to die".
Again after you fired off a few shots missed and pissed your pants and return fire was coming you might well have a dead child or adult that isn't the person who broke in. Where we do agree is most people aren't that bright, have moments where they are clearly stressed out and can't handle having deadly force and have no business having deadly force either in their homes or on their persons. The real problems are many and one of them is we have many people who are not that bright, think they can handle deadly force and can't. Guns should be highly restricted along with amo and those who carry them should be trained and licensed and prove need. I have had to many interactions with drunk hunters and experienced gun owners leaving their guns on tables in resturants and having to go back to get them to have any false notion about the "responsible" gun owners. Hell I have a couple of friends who shot themselves cleaning their weapons. Guns are most certainly a problem especially when you mix them with actually human beings. I can tell by your posts that you are far to cocky to have ever been in a position to fire a gun at a live human being. It's a humbling experience to any sane person and it's not at all like chewing gum and walking.
