I personally like EJ Manuel if we can get him in the 3rd. In a weak class, where we can't get a can't miss prospect, I'd rather get a high potential arm, rather than some guy who can dink and dunk. As far as tools go, Manuel has everything. Size, arm, speed. But all the reports on him are basically that he's not too bright, and the FSU team runs a very primitive offense. But I think smarts can be acquired. You can watch tape, you can get better coaching, and start seeing things better. You can't really hope to improve physical skills too much, but if we can get a guy with high potential, and hopefully get someone that can develop QBs, it's worth a shot. I love him in the 3rd rd, and been talking about him for awhile.
I watched him a few times last year and once this year... I wasn't impressed. He went into last year being talked about as a potential 1st round pick but was inaccurate and threw too many dumb interceptions, so he went back to school. To top it off, they were taking him out of the game when they got into the red zone to put in some freshman running "QB." (Bell? Think Tebow.) I'm not sure how much of that they were doing this year, but do you really want to take a guy in the first round at QB when his college team pulls him inside the 20? As far as "his stats look great," he plays in the Big XII. Most QBs from the Big XII's stats look great. Not every QB prospect makes it in the NFL. Some are decent and flounder around as a backup... which is still somewhat successful. I'd say Jones' ceiling barring a drastic improvement is Byron Leftwich, but I doubt he hits it.
The danger with this thinking is that you're taking someone who may not play for you in the third round since it is a weak class. Weak class means overdrafted, especially at a position like QB. There's a lot more to lose taking a project QB than say a project WR or RB or TE or DE or CB... in that you only put one on the field. You can platoon the other guys to give them some run, but a QB has to be in or out. A top-75 pick for someone you don't intend to play... you'd better have a deep roster if you're doing that IMO. *edit* Also, you guys are talking about picking up a rush OLB... Early third could be a good place to do that with John Simon, Brandon Jenkins, and Tank Carradine all slotted to go inthat neighborhood according to CBS.
Very good point!! The Jets don't have a deep roster. The only position(s) that has quality depth is the DL. The Jets aren't in a position to miss on a pick, even in Rd 3. The way to turn around this program is hiiting it out of the park, not just in Rd 1, but Rds 2-4 where the depth and quality this year is excellent. If the Jets can get 4 solid players in Rds 1-4 that contribute right away, we will be an improved team.
With all due respect, I don't know what you saw that says he's inconsistent. Maybe you only saw the Florida game where he played poorly. But the rest of the season he was pretty damn consistent. We're talking about a guy that was about 60% or above in almost all his starts in the past two years except against Florida. Hell, he was 64% or better in 18 of his 24 starts. I watched a lot of their games. The guy can make every throw on the field with accuracy.
IMO, you are way off here. First, Taylor was a 6th rounder. Manuel is going probably in the 3rd. Second, Taylor was much more of a runner at VT than Manuel was at FSU. Third, Manuel is way more accurate than Taylor ever was or will be. You're comparing a guy in Taylor who was almost 10% points below Manuel in completion rate. I understand that VT threw it more down the field. But EJ is a much more polished prospect coming out than Taylor was.
VT did a lot more vertical passing with Taylor than FL St did with Manuel under Jimbo Fisher, but I get your point. No comparison is perfect. EJ Manuel being more of an athlete than a QB reminded me of Taylor at VaTech. A lot of people loved Taylor's massive arm and raw athleticism at VaTech, and a lot of people are starting to fall in love with Manuel's big arm and athleticism as well. I just feel Manuel is way too inconsistent with his accuracy, does not have good field vision to read defenses, stares down receivers, and too often tucks and runs when his first read is not there. That's essentially how Tyrod Taylor played QB at VaTech so he popped into my mind as a comparison.
I would have said a month ago if Geno Smith falls to #9 the Jets absolutely have to take him. No one said Colin Kaepernick or Russell Wilson were QBs that you could build around and instead were just athletic guys who had some tools to work with, but look what they've accomplished in this pass-first league with read-option looks becoming more popular. Geno Smith falls squarely into that category. I will be surprised if the Chiefs do not end up with him, whether it's at #1 or enticing the Raiders, Eagles, or Lions to move up for Luke Joeckel and taking Geno at #3-5. His fit with Andy Reid and all the talent in KC is too good to pass on, even if he sits for a year behind Michael Vick (this Vick signing has to happen, right? A la Pacino in Any Given Sunday bringing Steamin' Willie Beamin with him to the expansion team). However, Geno's bowl game was in New York (Yankee Stadium to be exact) vs. Syracuse and he was absolutely terrible in some NY wintery conditions. I truly mean absolutely terrible. I think if we've learned anything with Eli's success with the Giants its that you need to be able to deal with the bad weather and have a big arm to force the ball through the wind to have a consistent successful passing attack especially during playoff time. With that in mind, Tennessee QB Tyler Bray comes to mind as a guy as the top of the 2nd round we could take. Bray has prototype size and big time arm, and would benefit from sitting for a season and learning Offensive Coordinator X's offense. That would also give Stephen Hill another year to progress, and us some time to fix our OL and RB situation so that Bray could step in for 2014 ready to rock with a retooled line and some offensive weapons. No to Barkley, he has even worse concerns for playing in NY than Smith or any other highly rated QB...and I personally can't stomach another USC QB. Then again, with two franchise caliber QBs likely to be available in the 2014 Draft: Teddy Bridgewater and Johnny Manziel (believe he declares, no more to gain only much to lose) and possibly a 3rd depending on the progression of VT QB Logan Thomas, this could be the year to really build up our offensive line and defense and then go to work on skill players and a QB next year. Sanchez plays out his contract, as does Rex, and we clean house with a brand new OC and a likely high draft choice to move up for our QB. If we got: 1) Chance Warmack, OG, Alabama 2) DJ Fluker, OT, Alabama 3) Tank Carradine, OLB, FSU 4) Marcus Lattimore, RB, SC 5) Dion Sims, TE, MSU 6) Ace Sanders, WR/RS, SC 7) Latavius Murray, RB, UCF Then we have set our OL as D'Brick, Moore, Mangold, Warmack, Fluker, added a well-rounded Marcedes Lewis-esque TE in Sims who can block well with upside as a big time blocker and underrated receiver safety valve, and trade our 3rd and 4th round picks for 2014 1st rounders in Carradine and Lattimore. Sanders should help our pedestrian punt return unit (Kerley set the record for most fair catches in a season), as well as provide depth at the slot position, and Murray could contribute in a power running role with Shonn Greene gone. Murray is actually a sleeper I like a lot who is a big bodied back and natural power runner. Not too different from Alfred Morris as a prospect, doesnt have big time speed but is a one cut power guy who knows how to score and hit the hole. Next year we do what we need to in order to get a QB like Teddy Bridgewater, and perhaps add a move TE in the mid-rounds, and we have a whole new offense with a new coach led by Bridgewater, Marcus Lattimore, Stephen Hill, Kerley, Sims, and our studly offensive line. Our defense is also further improved because Carradine should be 100% healthy and ready to contribute as a 3-4 OLB.
It's supposedly a weak class all around, so why not take a shot at a QB? Worst case scenario is that he becomes a back up QB, but at the 3rd rd it's worth the risk. I think I go the other way in thinking, that we are a team that needs a great draft to be good. And nothing makes a draft great like getting a good QB outside of the first round. For us to be good, we need to take risks, we're not a team that can afford to be safe in our picks, especially on offense because the team is devoid of elite talent on offense. Although, I can understand not going with a QB this draft. Not saying it has to be a necessity. I just think the risk could end up being worth it, if it's a 3rd. Even if we can develop him just a little bit, there is a chance that a third round pick can be gained in the future by trading Manuel, as we've seen all types of back up QBs go for draft picks or sign for big money. If we were going with an offense based top 3 rounds, I'd love to see a Warmack, maybe Hunter (although I doubt he falls that low)- or maybe Patterson or Hopkins, and Manuel in the 3rd. But if we go a different way and address the LB crew, I'm fine with it. But if we do pick a QB, I'd like one like Manuel or even Bray to an extent. Someone with potential, someone who atleast has a high ceiling.
Regarding Kaepernick, yes... he had all the physical tools but ran a gimmicky (but so fun to watch... I watched alot of Nevada his last year) running offense and people were unsure about how he would translate to the NFL. But I have to vehemently disagree that Wilson was in that category and that Smith is in that category. Russell Wilson excelled in the WCO in two different schools with two different languages. He's running by design more now as an NFL QB than he did in college. The only knock I heard on Wilson coming out was his height. His mental aspect of his game was his best quality, and had a strong arm to pair with it. Smith's best quality is his studying of the game as well. His arm isn't as strong as Wilson's (or Osweiler's or Weeden's or Griffin's or Bray's or Glennon's) and I think his athleticism is overrated (won't get into that here...) but the guy is a smart QB who isn't going to get overwhelmed when you put him in the game. *edit* That being said... that's a strong draft right there. Might have to take Sims in the 4th to get him, but you can probably just swap him with Lattimore anyways as he might not play this year.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draf...701/2013-nfl-draft-mel-kiper-first-mock-draft can anyone with an insider account put up what his mock draft actually was? im kinda curious cause i think mel kiper is a moron
Well if Marc Trestman thinks Tebow can be such a good QB in the right situation, and recruited him to NC State in 2006, and tutored Tebow for the Senior Bowl, and thinks any QB coach that loves developing QB's would love to develop Tim Tebow, he can take him off our hands. I'd gladly take Jay Cutler from him, who with a good offensive line and some decent weapons is easily a top 10-15 QB in this league like he was on track to be with Shanahan in Denver
Tyler Bray in the 3rd would be a great move. Kind of a Ryan Mallett deal with him. 1st round talent with some character concerns. My first 4 picks 1. Jones/Jordan/Ansah. Would be happy with any one of these 3. Jones obviously is the best of the bunch. Doubt he falls to us, but could cause of medical concerns. Jordan is great in coverage, good potential pass rusher. Ansah I think he will be a beast. Kid didn't know how to put shoulder pads on a couple years ago. I see JPP with this kid. Huge upside. 2. Larry Warford A very good guard. Will immediately start, and upgrade the line. 3. Tyler Bray Huge talent, arm. Just needs a clean pocket. May be a little head case, but you can't pass this kid up. 4. Ricky Wagner/ Brandon Jenkins Depending on if Wagner is available you pick him. With that you have somebody that's probably better than Howard and really solidifies the line. If he's not available, then Jenkins will be a nice consolation. Jenkins seems like a forgotten man. Two years ago this guy was a top 10 pick. Injury and constant double teams affected that. If he's the pick then we just loaded up on OLB. Which would leave us all kinds of options for 2014 draft. I would pick a TE, S, and OL with the rest of the draft. With that draft we sure up a lot of needs for this team. Then when 2014 draft comes around we have options instead of needs. Free agency pick up a Mendenhall or Ivory.
What's the draft experts thoughts or know any thing on Colby Cameron? Haven't seen him play but I'm really impressed by what I've been reading about him. Other than his size (6-2 205), everything else seems very impressive. Based on the reports, he's accurate, athletic and a better arm than you would think. The best thing is that he does not throw INTs. He set the NCAA record for most consecutive pass attempts in a single season without an interception (444 ATTEMPTS). The record was previously held by Russell Wilson who no INTs stretch was over several seasons I think. He'll be in the East West Shrine game; looking forward to seeing him play and seeing how strong his arm is as I'm read conflicting reports on that.
I'd love to see us trade down in second round and pick bray with a mid to late second round pick. Ideally we'd draft an olb with first pick and go offense with the rest
What do the draft aficionados here feel about Tyler Bray? Just watched youtube clips of the top 10 ranked QBs going into the draft and the two that impressed me the most were him and Nassib. Any background info on Bray? Kid can throw it a mile and has a very quick release. Would you spend a 2nd/3rd rounder on him?
Bray has a cannon for an arm, and a cannon for a brain as well. He's a poor decision-maker on and off the field, and not someone we probably want on this team. He's Ryan Leaf II, waiting to happen.
Seems like him and Manuel have the same thing in common. Can be solid on the field players if they had half a brain.
I've been meaning to post on this thread about Manuel for some time, but I just couldn't find enough tape. Here are his throws from his 2012 games against Clemson and against Va Tech. In watching his game, he moves very fluidly, both in and out of the pocket. He's got that ability to extend plays, which teams covet (e.g., Rapistberger, RW). As you can see from the tape, he loves the check down short pass. It is tough for me to tell whether the offense is designed as a one-read offense or whether he just does one read. However, when he goes deep, he's fairly accurate, hitting his target in stride. I'm not an expert, but that's my read. Any others?
