Seriously, you are in over your head. Please stop. I get it, you lookl at stat sheets and rankings and evaluate. That's not how I do it or how anyone that understands this game does it. The Jets blew the division when they got crushed at NE. The jets won in week 17 so how did we back in? also won 2 of our last 3. you are all over the place- INTs, fumbles, fumnles, INts I go back to one lost fumble b/c that is all he had. he was excellent in our biggest pressure games in january so where is the evidence of coming up small?
The last game remember wasn't with Sanchez at QB, remember that? You should, you've mentioned it enough times. I can't help but laugh at your "all over the place" comment, interceptions and fumbles are all part of the overall pictures, not just an isolated statistic. It's all related to taking care of the ball, making good decisions, playing big with confidence as opposed to playing small in panic. You keep going back to one fumble "Because that's all he had" because that's a stat that you look at that on the surface seems to support your argument, you know for someone who complains so much about people using stats and not understanding them you seem to use stats quite frequently without any fundamental understanding of their actual implications. And when the stats don't exactly meet your requirements, you go in and twist them, distort them and alter them until they do appear to meet your requirements, until your called out on it, then you double down. And no, I was watching that season, the seasons before that season and the seasons after it. I watch as Sanchez stares down receivers, as he double and sometimes triple pumps trying to fake receivers who aren't going to bite becasue they know he does it all the time. I watch as sanchez is almost constantly off target with this passes and seldom leaving recivers with an option to run the ball after the catch because they so often have to over adjust their route to get to where the ball is. I've actually watched Sanchez pump fake to wide open receivers and actually DRAW defenders to the guy he was going to throw the ball to. Hint, if your reciever is wide open you don't pump fake to him, you throw the damned ball. And no most of Sanchez's fumbles aren't because he gets blind sided, those are forgiveable fumbles. Most of Sanchezs fumbles are because he often carries the ball in one hand down to his side, the same position he had the ball in when rushing in to the line on the Butt fumble. When he's running with the ball he doesn't secure it, he carries it in one hand down to his side, which is where the ball was when he butt fumbled, and where the ball is any time Sanchez runs with it. It's all about ball security, and Sanchez doesn't have it. If you watch the games you know this is true, I've watched them, it's pretty obvious that you haven't.
which last game? The bottom line is he lost ONE fumble in 2010, as I showed you w/ other QBs it's not just mark that fumbles. You are confusing the sanchez from 2012 w/ the one from 2010- they were two totally different players. I suggest you go back and watch 2010 games. you clearly don't watch games(or you don't know what you are watching if you do), you have proven that over and over again in this thread.
Ah now we drop down to vague comments, and nothing but insults to try to support your positions. It was 2010 I was refereing to, go back and watch the season, he was doing all those things ALL the time...well except that butt fumble, that was 2012. However, the butt fumble is an easy fumble to find on youtube and that illustrates how Sanchez "cares" for the ball in crowded situations, he doesn't. He carries it recklessly like there is noone around him. I remember watching that play live as Sanchez was running towards the line and screaming at my TV (as if that's going to do any good) "TUCK THE BALL AWAY". Of course he didn't and now that play lives in football infamy, and will likely be the "highlight" of Marks NFL career. But while that example is extreme, its a perfect example of how mark never takes care of the ball, he's reckless with it any time he runs and never protects the ball. As far as the one fumble lost that season, yes it is Statistically accurate, but it show's your lack of understanding of the problem of putting the ball down on the ground. Yes all QB's do it, and most QB's who do it all the time, like Mark, get benched unless they're a plus QB in the other areas. If mark was a plus QB in any other area the fumbles wouldn't be as much of a concern, but the fact is that he isn't. And while it's true other QB's have had big fumble years, they don't do it year in and year out with the consitancy that Mark does it and mark doesn't bring enough pluses to the game to counter balance that negative. But, as long as we're talking about it. Mark Sanchez ranks 16th on the list of active players with fumbles. He's the only player in the top 20 to have been drafted in 2009 or later. He's 4 fumbles behind the next longest tenure active player, Flacco who was drafted in 2008, and Flacco hasn't sat out a game in the 5 years he's been in the league and has started every game since coming in to the league. Every other player in that top 20 has been in the league and a starter since at least 2004 except one, Jason Campbell who's been in the league since 2006, he's fumbled 4 more times than Sanchez, but to be fair most of those fumbles came in his first 4 years...he's been a backup QB ever since. One thing all the top 20 have in common, they're all QB's. yes Qb's fumble more than anyone else. But Sanchez is by far and away the most adept at doing it. There are only two QB's in the top 20 that have averaged 10+ fumbles per season, Sanchez and Rivers. So yes, we have one thing Sanchez is very good at, fumbles. Now lets look at Interceptions. Sanchez ranks #15 in career interceptions. That doesn't sound too bad, sounds middle of the road. Except, he's only played 4 seasons. In fact he's the League leader in career interceptions for anyone drafted 2007 or later. He's number 3 in career interceptions for players drafted 2005 or later, Cutler who was drafted in 2006 Leads that group with 100 interceptions, followed by Fitzpatrick drafted in 2005 with 81 interceptions, and then of course Sanchez drafted in 2009 with 69 Interceptions, Every other QB on that list has been in the league since 2004 or before and many of those are now backups in the league. So we have Sanchez as among the most fumble prone, Sanchez as among the most interception prone. And among career completion percentage among active passers he ranks #32 of those who have enough pass attempts to qualify on the list. That's #32 out of 33 active QB's who qualify with a minimum of 150 attempts per season played on average among active players. So lets see, He fumbles at the second highest rate per season of any active QB, throws interceptions at the second highest rate per season of any active QB, and Completes the fewest percent of his passes of ANY Active QB with 100 attempts per season played not named Derek Anderson and Anderson hasn't thrown more than 4 pass attempts since 2010, he's been a backup the last two years, and a 3rd string backup at that. None of those are fantasy stats, they all reflect how well the QB takes care of the ball and how effecient they are at passing the ball. No taking in to account 5000 yards thrown or any other "fantasy" stat. And as stated, every time the ball hits the ground on a fumble, it's at best a toss up who recovers it, Sanchez has been very lucky in that one regard, but then again he's also led the league in dropped interceptions 3 out of the last 4 years another lucky break. So let me understand this, he fumbles more, Gets picked off more, completes the lowest percentage of his passes, and has more dropped interceptions than any QB in the last 4 years and he's a big time player? Face it Junc, Sanchez is a small time QB. He's inefficient, he makes lousey decisions, he doesn't protect the ball, he's an inaccurate passer. On any other team he'd be a backup...well except maybe the Cardinals.
1968jets fan, please stop! We can't see the game. Only junc has the ability to watch jet games and see the microscopic good that sanchize does to make him so clutch! You won't get a reply from him after the one you gave him. Unless he mentions 2009 or 2010 season in which mark led us to 2 arc championship games. Sancho made plays when it counted and the rest of the team let us down! Only junc has the ability to see this.
You have been hurling insults since the beginning to deflect from your incredibly weak arguments. He is reckless, that is an area he has to work on BUT in 2010 he lost ONE fumble. did you know he has less turnovers since 2009 than Eli Manning? all that stuff includes his awful 2012, we were discussing 2010 but nice job deflecting. posters like tbruner think you are doing a great job:lol:
Yes, but I always include facts. Your math looks funny, so I checked and as usual you are wrong, surprise. Lets break this down 2012 Sanchez 8 fumbles lost 18 interceptions 2011 Sanchez 8 fumbles lost 18 interceptions 2010 1 fumble lost 13 interceptions 2009 3 fumbles lost 20 interceptions total 20 fumbles 69 interceptions=89 turnovers Manning 2012 1 fumble lost 15 interceptions 2011 4 fumbles lost 16 interceptions 2010 5 fumbles lost 25 interceptions 2009 8 fumbles lost 14 interceptions total 18 fumbles lost, 70 interceptions=88 turnovers total fumbles sanchez 43/20=46.5% of fumbles lost toral fumbles Manning 33/18=54.5% of fumbles lost All stats from NFL.com. So as usual, your twisted facts to try to win your argument, in this case a statistical fabrication on your behalf. As you can see first off despite having worse luck on recovered fumbles Eli actually has turned the ball over less than Sanchez despite Sanchez having been substantially lucky on the percentage of fumbles recovered. But even with that bit of luck Sanchez stilll has turned the ball over more than Manning, contrary to your false statement. Additionally, as previously stated Sanchez has led the league in dropped interceptions for 3 of the last 4 seasons, two of those seasons not even being close to the number 2. So despite a ton of good luck by Sanchez on both those fronts he's still turned the ball over more. Nice try though....really, I mean you know your on thin ice when your having to fabricate stats to try to make your case.
and no Junc, this thread is about discussing Sanchez and what he has to do to redeem himself, not just 2010. When 2010, a medicore year by QB standards, is a Qb's "best" year you know you have problems.
Oh jesus, he was off by one turnover, lets insult him now. Stop comparing Manning and Sanchez. The only area they're similar is turnovers. Manning throws for more yards than Sanchez and has a higher completion percentage. I'm pretty sure every person on the forum would rather have Eli Manning than Mark Sanchez.
I'm not the one who made the comparision, I'm also not the one who said Manning had turned over the ball more since 2009 between the two. I had two choices, let him get away with fabricating or call him on it. With Junc it's a continuing trend. He's been reaching for ways to support Sanchez as a "big time" Qb and he keeps making comparisons to top 10 QB's and weakening his argument by doing so...it's not much of a life, i know. But it's entertaining.
Who really cares what happened two years ago anyway? You judge a QB based on his ABILITIES, period. Talk about what you think Sanchez's ABILITIES are...what does he do well? What does he do poorly? If you think that there is some kind of magical quality about Sanchez where he wins games in the clutch, then where has that been the past two years? He's pretty much been anti-clutch, and that's not everybody else's fault. Also, if you believe in this type of magical quality, then I'm surprised that you weren't pimping Tebow to start this year, because he came through in the clutch over and over the one year he was allowed to start, basically...this includes a big playoff game. Nevermind that "he" won a game where he completed only TWO passes, 'cuz that's just fantasy stats, right? Nevermind that he typically played poorly for 3 and a half quarters before making plays to help his team win, 'cuz there is no way that contributed to the NEED for a comeback in the first place, right? Sanchez has NEVER consistently played well in the NFL...NEVER. The more he is asked to do, the worse he looks in general. Blame the defense for the Pittsburgh loss all you want. They gave up a net total of 15 points in that game, and didn't allow a single point in the second half...they SCORED 2 points in the second half. They also won the turnover battle. You obviously hang your hat WAY too much on clutch plays...a football game is 4 quarters long, not just a sum total of what happens at the end of it. While they had a chance at the end, the Jets did not lose that Pittsburgh game only because their defense gave up a couple of first downs at the end. If you blame the defense, maybe you should also say that poor play from opposing defenses were the real reason for some of the handful of clutch drives led by Sanchez...not Sanchez himself. Think about that. Sanchez didn't have any clutch plays, it was always the other teams' defense that let them down, right?
Did you know that Eli Manning has won 2 SB's? God, when will you just face the music. Its as clear as day. Just get over it. Sanchez is a bottom QB in this league and he will most likely be a backup in this league from here on out. He's going on his fifth year, and yet he still has to work on things like not being the most turnover prone QB in the NFL? Please. He's a veteran at this point, and a bad one at that. 1968 provided great facts and completely tore your senseless argument apart. His argument is far from weak... Take a look in the mirror, your argument is the one's whose is weak. You are living 2 years in the past in an incredibly average season. Thats all you have.
The objective is to win a SUPER BOWL. If as you say, he is not top flight, why keep him? We have had him for four years. Two years he barley won games because of a great defense and run game but never topped 60 per cent completion percentage. The other two years he was horrible. Its not enough to be in in playoff contention in the last few weeks. We MUST have a QB capable of leading us to and winning a SUPER BOWL. Sanchez is NOT that guy based on his production or lack of it. You know the definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results!!
This is an outstanding post...but you relize nyjunc wont answere it:sad: In his eyes your just an average fan...
Joe Flacco is basically Sanchez's upside, if he ever had real coaching. A guy without impressive numbers but somehow does get it done in the playoffs.
Hard to even take junc seriously. Sanchez is a game manager and STILL turns the ball over. Most QBs in the league would have 10 picks or less every year running Sanchez's caveman offense. Guys like Brees and Eli do turn the ball over from time to time. However, they also force the ball down the field and produce yards and points. These guys dont have color codes and arent running draw plays on third and ten. They have also won something called the Super Bowl and have played some of their best football in the playoffs. Sanchez is unique in that every aspect of his numbers are horrible and the circumstances around his numbers somehow still make him look worse. The guy threw for less than 3000 yards and still was a turnover machine! Does anything else need to be said?
Remain a Jet?? Are you serious?? The more I watch other QB's, the more I appreciate just how bad Mark Sanchez is. As long as he's on this team we're completely fucked. Did you just see that pass Kaepernick completed to Davis down the seam? He had about 1/2 a step on AJ Hawk, and the ball was put exactly where it needed to be for a long completion. The guy has about 8 NFL starts under his belt. If Sanchez throws that pass, I'd bet my life it's underthrown for an INT. It drives me nuts when people say things like "he can make all the throws". No he can't. He can barely make any of them, That's why he has the worst completion % in pro football. He's a horrible, horrible QB ... and if we're talking about keeping on this team any time past June 1st, we better dig in and take cover, because have no shot of moving forward with this loser. It makes no difference who the GM is ... the Head Coach ... the OC ... the linebackers, etc. If Mark Sanchez is taking snaps for this team, we're in BIG trouble. All you need to do is watch the playoffs to see that we don't have a real NFL QB.
