w/ good healthy alone he'd have enough weapons. most of 2012: 1. Kerley, 2 Schilens, 3 Gates, 4 Cumberland, 5 Reuland openign day 2012(assuming Braylon and keller are back) 1. Holmes 2. Keller 3. Edwards 4. Kerley 5. Hill 6. Cumberland that's w/o making any moves, I would assume we'd attack the O in the draft and you don't have to make huge splashy moves to make good moves. yes, compare a guy who didn't play to the guy was our starting QB- the most important positions on the field. makes sense he was one of the worst QBs b/c he had nothing around him, do you not get this? put any QB on our team this year and we have a similar record. No QB is succeeding w/ the healthy weapons we had.
He wasn't "one of the worst" this season, he was THE worst. And somehow I think if Tom Brady was back there the Jets would've won more games.. But maybe I'm wrong. Of course I don't even need to use Brady to argue this. If they had even a guy like Sam Bradford or 27 or so other NFL quarterbacks they would've had a better offense this year and presumably won more games.
Brady is the best of his generation, we would have won a couple more games but not a significant amount. I don't think you relaize what he had to work w/ this year while making such asinine statements.
Wrong and this is where your entire argument is nonesense. The GM doesn't pick talent in a vacuum anymore then the coaching staff coaches up talent to perform at a high level in a vacuum. They are both culpable or successful as a team. The draft picks need to be coached to perform. The coaches need to agree they can do it. It's called accountability. Tannenbaum didn't just pick Sanchez he went with his HC and OC to work him out. When you have a HC who was not hired by the GM you don't have accountability. That's why if we get a good GM Rex is likely to be canned. I love Rex, I think he's a nice guy, fun, good D coordinator but an outright failure as a HC. Let me ask you since you think it's personal hate for Rex on my part. Do you have a man crush on Rex?
There's a reason we're going for a new GM. Rex Ryan isn't the one who locked up too much money in the wrong places. That was all Tanny, regardless of whether or not Rex had input on draft choices or player acquisitions. That still doesn't excuse Tanny for the Sanchez extension, or for losing lots of talent after 2010. There's only so much Rex can do about that, with the salary cap. Rex may have input but he's extremely limited in what he can do when money's that tight. Do you think Rex wanted to lose all that talent and replace the players with bottom of the barrel / practice squad talent? This is Tanny's trademark because we can rarely afford to sign our own free agents. Obviously winning a superbowl is #1, but that doesn't mean all non superbowl teams have bad coaches. I don't agree. Everything you are saying can be fixed by drafting linebackers, but it wasn't always like that. Also, in 2010 the defense was better, but teams were more familiar with Revis and Rex's schemes, so it wasn't as effective. Think about it. In 2009 Revis alone was better than Revis PLUS Cromartie in 2010? No way. Statistically they might have been better in 2009, but don't forget Revis missed like 5-6 games with that hamstring injury. I admit our linebackers were getting older, but in 2010 they weren't anywhere near as slow as they are now, plus our safety unit was weaker. In 2009 teams didn't know how great Revis was, and to avoid throwing his direction. 2009 was when Revis emerged. As a result the D was #1. In 2010 teams adjusted and threw at him a lot less. I agree about the D. The defense played well enough, that even a top 20 offense would have sufficed this year to make the playoffs. We just didn't have that. And yes, OBVIOUSLY Santonio Holmes would have made a difference. Claiming he wouldn't is beyond silly. Holmes was having a good year and was Mark's go to guy, up until he got injured. Then there's Keller as well, Marks #1 target in back to back years, who was out most of the season. That's 2 big time targets for Mark, and yes, it would have helped with confidence and he wouldn't have had to force so many throws into double / triple coverage this year. I said it above, the salary cap was extremely limiting in what Rex could do. He couldn't just give Tanny a list of FA names and expect them on the team next year. They had a tight budget, which seems to always be the case in the Tannebaum era, and they couldn't adequately replaced lost talent, on the line, in the RB core OR in the WR core because of the cap. We had no depth this year, and it certainly is not Ryan's fault. It's not like he advocated to replace our top talent with PS players and undrafted FAs. Rex did that in 2010 and jokingly did it in 2011. He doesn't just predict superbowls every year. He's been quiet this year. Yeah, he defends his team, but again, you talk about trends rather than the full career of Ryan, why is the trend of penalties ignored? We went from bottom ten to top ten in penalties this year. Big swing. Rex has been much quieter this year as well. So why do you not apply that "what have you done for me lately" logic with those factors as well? You can't have it both ways. I don't care what the media or anyone else says, it has nothing to do with our play on the field. Rex was the loudest in 2010, and we won the most games that year, so how can you honestly say that his mouth is losing us games? No logic whatsoever in that. That logic can apply to 20 other teams in the league. If they didn't win they would have lost. REALLY? Great revelation there. You can't factor in what ifs like that. Plenty of teams win close games late. It doesn't mean the team is just lucky. They had more talent at the time and squeezed them out. If anything it shows good coaching and good play from the players to make those comeback wins. Obviously I don't agree, because you are just speculating. Not a single thing in that paragraph is related to actual football. You know for a fact that Peyton's decision was based on Rex talking? It's also very unlikely we could afford him either at that point.
Yes. It is baseless banter and it's not related to football. OMG fighting in training camp? This team is donefor!!!! OMG Holmes had ONE single incident during his career here. IT'S ALL REX!!!! :lol: You are mad because Rex doesn't punish players for talking to the media???? His policy has always been to let them say what they want. This is the nonsense I'm talking about with media drama and gossip. That shit has absolutely nothing to do with coaching FOOTBALL. I'm talking about holding players accountable for mistakes they make on the field and in practice. You only care about drama. I care about football. Saying Rex doesn't hold his players accountable and listing garbage like the reasons above shows you dislike his personality rather than his ability to coach. Proof Rex holds his players accountable? He benched Sanchez TWICE and he lost his starting job. There is direct football related evidence. I doubt you'll have the same. You'll probably come back with some crap like "Oh, Rex stayed with Sanchez too long", as if McElroy or Tebow are great quarterbacks capable of just stepping in and winning games or if the result would have been different if we played McElroy against the Seahawks. Plus we forget that Sanchez was guaranteed tons of money next year, so it makes sense to get him more reps with the young receivers learning a new system. Says and does? Okay, let's focus on the DOES. He does let them say what they want to the media. We know this, but claiming they actually just do whatever they want in practice is nonsense. AGAIN, you are focusing on nothing but drama and gossip. I don't care about that crap. I care about the game of football. Yes, you do need to be in the locker room to know exactly how Rex disciplines his team and holds people accountable. Going by media quote mines from press conferences and thinking that's all that matters as a coach, is a bit silly. Why do you think players don't respect him? Because of an anonymous source? :lol: Sorry real football related evidence matters. Ah so first it's "Rex's big mouth gets us into trouble" now it's "well he had to be quiet" :lol: So which one is it??? Okay. Even before the season he wasn't predicting superbowls or anything close to that this year, and again, if you are honestly looking for trends rather than Rex's career as a whole. This part has no merit in that discussion. He's improved his loud talking and improved the team's penalties tremendously. We also had major injuries. Shit happens. So basically you are saying that Rex is to blame because he predicted a superbowl back in 2010 and did other gimmicks and cocky talking. Also saying we haven't beaten a winning team in two years is FALSE. We beat the Colts this year who ended up 11-5. We've also beat a few 8-8 teams that would have had winning records if not for us beating them. It doesn't mean squat. I'm not the one making the claim that Rex should be fired. You are making that claim, so yeah, the burden of proof is on you, not for me to prove you wrong. You are stating things "matter of fact" but they aren't facts. They are guesses and mostly not based on football. That's the issue I have. Rex has yet to learn that huh? You honestly believe he learned nothing from his last 2 years here? That is pure speculation and you know it. Again, you are mistakenly assuming that everything Rex says in press conferences is exactly what he says on the field and during practice. That's just a guess. This isn't really a debate. This is you speculating about things you think you know, but they aren't evidence of anything. You dislike Rex's personality and that's pretty much it. Why can't you admit that? There's no other reason not to like Rex.
I think you ignored most of what I wrote and just decided to take it your own way. I haven't even gotten into the fact that the team is hardly ever prepared for games and that they constantly come out flat, can't beat good teams, miss tackles, make dumb penalties at the wrong times (forget the stats I said!!!!) - I told you I wasn't getting on him for the field stuff, and yet you now tell me it should be about the field stuff? Then what are we even talking about this for? Because there is PLENTY of evidence of on the field stuff and in-game decisions. I said I was willing to forgive mistakes and let him learn on the job, but running a country club doesn't equate to winning. I'm sorry, but that is fact and it's not something I can "prove" in the way you want it other than to point at the chaos which you simply call "drama" and dismiss as insignificant. I also said that the wins and losses don't translate directly from his mouth, but it's a trickle down effect. You decided to twist it all into me saying "Rex said something in 2010 that made the team bad this year". Take your self-aggrandizing interpretations elsewhere brother! As for Santonio Holmes, if you're ok with a guy doing what he did, even ONCE, then we have nothing much further to discuss on the point - that's a character flaw, not a mistake. End of that story right there. When it comes to shutting his mouth and gaining the respect of his lockeroom, he's learned only a bare minimum - stop motivating the other team by telling them how good you are. That's it. The circus-like atmosphere where everyone is tearing apart everyone else is a direct lack of respect for the guy running it. Again, you don't have to agree, but it is what it is. Right, Rex had nothing to do with it. He wasn't aware of the salary cap implications, he just offered his input and voila! he got what he wanted. LOL You are naive man, just like you are about the "anonymous sources" thing you won't let go. That shit is real my man. Guys making shit up as constantly as you're accusing them of doing in such a media market like this one wouldn't last very long, and the Jets would at least dispute the charges instead of constantly saying "no comment". I don't think any of that made much sense. The secondary was better, but the linebackers got a year older and slower and the line still couldn't put pressure on the QB. Overall, the 2009 defense did a better job of locking teams down than 2010 did. I don't give a rat's ass about the stats - they don't tell the whole story. I go by what I see. And the 2009 team instilled a confidence in us, as fans, that they werne't going to give up the big play or commit a stupid penalty. The 2010 defense wasn't nearly as solid. What in your entire argument is based on actual football? You are speculating just as much as I am. Actually, you are more covering your ears and screaming so you can't hear the truth - it's almost as if you want to ignore what's right in front of you because you DO like Rex's personality whereas I am basing my conjecture on what I see, a long list of facts that all blend together to tell a story, and experience with this kind of stuff. I do admit I don't like Rex's personality, but I could live with it if he was doing a good job at coaching football, and if I didn't feel he paints a target on the team with his big mouth. You may think it's alll drama, but the "drama" that you say has nothing to do with football is a distraction. That type of shit is a distraction in every industry in the world, and it's a distraction here.
I don't think you read my prior response. My text was broken into 2 posts because I ran out of room. My point all along is that your reasons for disliking Rex are personality ones, not actual coaching ones, and now you've proven me correct. You just stated you don't care about on the field stuff or stats, when that is the biggest thing that matters on a team. And your point about penalties is laughably wrong, as we were a top 5 team for fewest penalties. I put that in my response above as well, but you just ignored it. WE MAKE DUMB PENALTIES!! REX SUCKS!!!! :lol: You must not watch a lot of football outside the Jets because you seem to have no clue that almost every other team in the league commits dumb penalties. We are better than 27 teams in the league as far as penalties go, so again, the one football related thing in your paragraph was wrong. :lol: at forget the stats. You are way off base, especially for mentioning penalties, which are the thing that Rex improved on the most this year. I think you are wrong. You are just speculating based on a guess. :lol: at the trickle down economics reference, there's nothing in reality at all to suggest that is true and I already clearly explained why. Did I say I was okay with it? I just said that's the only incident he's had on the team thus far, so blaming the head coach for Santonio having a disagreement with Schotty and the linesmen in a game is absurd. Rex isn't running the offense. We know this, but yet you blame him anyway. :lol: This is Skip Bayless level analysis. You might as well say Lebron didn't win a title with the Heat his first year because he didn't try hard enough. That shit is laughable. You honestly believe that when the Pats or any other team plays the Jets they aren't motivated until they hear Rex Ryan say something good about his team? You REALLY believe that teams beat us because we give them extra motivation? That's a load of crap, and is another drama / gossip type crap that has nothing to do with football. If the players aren't motivated enough without that, then they have no business being in the NFL and BOY, their head coaches must REALLY suck at motivating them. How can you say that players don't respect him when Rex encourages his players to speak their mind to the press? They are doing what he wants and as far as anonymous sources go, there's no reason whatsoever to thing that Manish wasn't lying or being dishonest about that. Even Slauson came forward and said his Tebow comments were from the preseason, despite being credited the quote 2 months into the season. That's reason enough to doubt the article and the writer completely. He's not being completely honest. There you go again, speaking matter of fact, without providing a single fact. Funny how you instantly dismiss anything postive about Rex and completely ignore my point about the salary cap and losing talent as a result. If Rex didn't make those contracts, you can't blame him for the loss in talent following 2010. It's THAT SIMPLE and I can't believe you continue to pretend that Rex is heavily involved in that. I know he's involved in draft picks, but you can't bring in FAs without money to pay them, regardless of what Rex wants. Can we please drop this ridiculous argument? Durrr I don't go by stats, just by what I see. :rofl: This is cracking me up, and that's why I responded. You are giving me my entertainment for the day! The problem is when the defense does its job and gets a stop, you don't think it's anything good, it's what they are supposed to do. Then when they make a mistake you remember it forever and focus on it. The defense was better in 2010, and I'm saying that NOT based on stats. 2009 had better stats, so why are saying I'm using stats for that when I'm not? I'm using logic. Do you REALLY not understand what constitutes as football and what constitutes as drama and speculation? Lets see here. Win Loss record. Playoff win percentage. Top 8 defense for 4 years straight (would be top 5 with Revis here this year). Huge improvement on penalties this year. Major injuries this year. 50% rate in making the playoffs. These are all based on football with tangible results that can be looked up and verified and effect the game of football on the field. In no way shape or form is any of that a guess or speculation. Well I'm still waiting for your football facts. I listed mine above. Yours are all based on; Rex has a loud mouth (not football related), he doesn't hold people accountable (a guess), the players don't respect him (guess), the offense isn't that good (okay this is true), He stuck with Sanchez (who wouldn't with McElroy and Tebow as alternatives and Sanchez being contractually obligated for another year). That is only a distraction to fans. The team itself doesn't give a rat's ass about that stuff. I mean, what do you honestly believe goes on in practice?
Coach involved in picking GM accd to presser. If that is true, accountability is not what it should be. New GM should have total authority over every facet of team
Does anyone know of any precedence where a team fired it's GM, all the coaching staff save the HC. Changed the offensive philosophy of the team and the offensive personnel and kept the HC? Is this new uncharted waters we are going into with Woody Johnson and Rex Ryan? Just wondering, and am too lazy to look it up.
Between 1998 and 2000 the Steelers let go of OC Mike Sherman and DC Jim Haslett. Tom Donohoe the Director of Football Operations resigned after the 1999 season. Cowher of course stayed through the transition. Interesting note: Cowher shared Defensive Coordinator responsibilities with Tim Lewis in Lewis first year on the job in 2000. Similar to the arrangement that Rex had with Pettine the last 4 years.
but I don't think they changed the offensive philosophy of the team, did they? my reason for asking is, I am trying to make sense out of why the owner is tied to Ryan, when Ryan himself all but admits that he is learning on the Job, and making it up as he goes along
So as of Jan 8th 2013, Rex Ryan is the only football man calling the shots right now. No coordinators.. No general manager...no more scapegoats.... What other 1st time head coach gets this kind of autonomy? If/when Jan 2014 rolls around and the Jets are watching others in the playoffs who will there be left for Woody to fire, besides Rex? Will he continue to point fingers and get a pass?
There's a lot of talk about Smashmouth Football in Pittsburgh but the truth is that the Steelers always run what the personnel can handle. If you look at the last two decades you see huge swings in the number of runs and passes attempted from season to season and the two biggest factors are how good the team is and who is hurt that year. The owner is tied to Rex because an owner should be tied to his top managers. I've never understood how an owner was supposed to manage a successful outcome for his team if he had a tiered structure in place for his top managers.
by tied to the HC I was more wondering about removing everyone else from around him, replacing them while also pressing the reset button on the offensive philosophy. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to hear that, I'm just not happy that we are not getting a total fresh start this off season, and subsequently, we will be doing that down the road next off season or the following one. The right thing to have done, was to get rid of everyone, hire a GM with years of personnel experience, giving him full control and then let him hire the coaching staff and front office personnel for his vision of what the Jets should look like. Hopefully, we will get a SB out of this current makeshift application very soon.
In this scenario though, Bill Cowher took over a team that hadn't been to the playoffs in 8 years, compiled a 71-41 record with 4 division titles, and 1 AFC Championship title in the years leading up to 1998. He had proven his worth as an NFL Coach. Rex Ryan on the other hand took over a team that had made the playoffs 4 of the previous 7 years, and is 34-30 with ZERO division titles... Also, Cowher didn't have any say in terms of who the New General Manager would be, like appararently Rex is getting. What Woody Johnson is doing is completely without precedent... Hanging his whole organization on an 1st time average NFL coach because of "belief".
Pitt made the playoffs in 1989 and won a playoff game, Cowher took over in 1992. rex took over in 2009, our prvious playoff app was 3 years earlier just like Cowher and our last playoff win was in 2004- 5 years before Rex. rex took over a team that had missed the playoffs 2 straight years, 3 of the previious 4 years and 4 of the previous 6 years. From 1986-2008 the NY Jets won 4 playoff games, in 2009 & 2010 Rex led us to 4 playoff wins.
I overlooked '89, sorry and thanks for correcting me. Either way, the Steelers had much far, far more success with Cowher prior to 1998, than the Jets have had with Ryan. The rest of your post is silly - because once again you are trying to prove that Rex is good, by pointing out how terrible the Jets' history has been. Irrelevant to the discussion and frankly irrelevant all together.
Today is just another embarrassing chapter for this franchise. Now we're going to have waste another 4 years and hope Woody finally wakes up from his stupor. I'm starting to get the feeling that he's fast becoming Jim Dolan.
