Politics Thread: Road to 2014 and 2016 Elections

Discussion in 'BS Forum' started by 21stAmendment, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. Cappy

    Cappy Well-Known Member

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    I did not say it will not impact the ability of small companies to maintain or hire employees AT ALL. I said that smart business owners don't make those decisions based on tax rates. I'd bet almost anything that the amount you are grossly overpaying your employees is wasting more money than any additional amount you'll have to spend on this tax increase.

    In other words, this tax increase itself is small potatoes.

    Besides, the salaries you pay to employees are not going to be factored into your individual tax. Your profits are taxed, not your revenue.
     
  2. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    You missed the point you probably don't understand cash flow at all.
     
  3. Cappy

    Cappy Well-Known Member

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    No, I did not miss your point. And I understand cash flow quite well, thank you.

    Seriously... if you're a business owner, run the numbers yourself. I have. The difference in cash flow that we're talking about is relatively inconsequential.
     
  4. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    Inconsiquentail based on what? You can't grow a business with out expanded cash flow. The reason most companies go out of business is inconsequential differences that prevent those companies from paying their bills.

    The tax increase is not inconsequential it is substantial because the rates are only 1 aspect of the increase. Cap gains are going up, deductions are going down and there is an increase from the health care law. A small business with a few high income partners is going to have to pay those taxes which is going to come directly from a distribution from the company reducing it's cash flow. It is likely to contract not expand small businesses that are doing fairly well.

    Most small business owners are not going to reduce their standard of living to pay more to an employee especially if there cash flow is squeezed and they are personally signed for their loans which most of them are.

    Again I'm all for higher taxes, much higher taxes but to think this doesn't target small businesses and reduce their ability to expand and hire is total BS.
     
    #164 Biggs, Jan 2, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2013
  5. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    In 2 months the debt ceiling will be raised by enough to cover the rest of the fiscal year. That debt ceiling raise will be accompanied by heavy spending cuts including many of the cuts that have been now put off by 2 months. There will be additional cuts involved and the military spending cuts will not be as steep as the ones currently on the table.
     
  6. VanderbiltJets

    VanderbiltJets Active Member

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  7. 21stAmendment

    21stAmendment Member

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  8. VanderbiltJets

    VanderbiltJets Active Member

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    I tend to believe the legitimacy of leaked government documents. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/30/1174835/-They-planned-to-kill-us-if-deemed-necessary
    http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/340232

    It's really unintelligent to dismiss violent (borderline illegal) behavior by the Federal Government just because of concurring partisan affiliation; you would've shat yourself if Bush's name were attached. Welcome to Obama's America: where one side is all-good and one side is all-evil (God vs. Satan? The Super Best Friends vs. Barbara Streisand?)
     
    #168 VanderbiltJets, Jan 2, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2013
  9. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

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    I frankly do not see that happening. First of all the economy is still too weak to take huge cuts without causing an economic slowdown. But I think the GOP and the media assume too much that the GOP will have leverage with the budget ceiling.

    It's up to Obama, really. If he sticks to his position that the debt ceiling is not an occasion to consider budget cuts, then he will have to let the GOP fail to live up to its responsibilities on the ceiling. If that happens, the GOP will have to describe what cuts it wants, and so far they have been extremely reluctant to put their name on specific proposals.

    But... I know that's a big if, since Obama often looks like he's too in love with getting a deal, and he loses leverage as a result.

    The last thing he should do imo is enter negotiations on cuts to head off the GOP from refusing to raise the debt ceiling. If in fact the GOP wants to take the position it will only allow a vote to raise the debt ceiling in return for cuts, they should be required to list those cuts they want. In the meantime they will look like hostage takers, or perhaps more accurately like the sheriff in Blazing Saddles threatening to kill himself if the townspoeple do not leave him alone.

    I don't understand how we ever got to a point where the GOP makes it a matter of official policy to say they are relatively unconcerned about the integrity of the nation's currency. Or more to the point that they count on the Dems being more concerned about such integrity than they are as a means of obtaining leverage.

    Obama should say go ahead and make my day, and perhaps if the GOP actually fails to raise the debt ceiling, I would seriously consider taking the position that the debt ceiling itself is unconstitutional or otherwise unenforceable. I do not understand how failure to enact a piece of legislation should have the effect of defunding programs and governmental operations, including national defense, that have already been legislatively approved.
     
  10. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

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    LOL! Did you even read your linked site??? It said nothing about the FBI being the group that was planning sniper attacks. It merely said the FBI was tracking info that some unidentified group was planning such attacks on Occupy leaders.

    You lost much cred today, dude. I don't know if you have any left.
     
  11. 21stAmendment

    21stAmendment Member

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    go for a walk, come back, and read what you posted
     
  12. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    I don't see the issue here?

    According to the documents the FBI identified several individuals/groups planning to take violent action against the Occupy Wall Street movement. How is that borderline illegal?

    Is it not the FBI's job to do exactly what they are accused of here, to identify potential threats for action?
     
  13. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    The least bad option for President Obama in the event that the Republicans dig in their heels on the debt ceiling fight will be to allow the cuts that have already been agreed to by both sides to occur. He'll offset some of the military cuts with other subsidies in the states that would be hit by the cuts.

    Then it's up to the Republicans to either approve that or not.

    That's just my prediction. I don't think the status quo works at this point and I think both sides are smart enough to see that.
     
  14. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    Obama himself voted against raising the debt ceiling when he was in the Senate, I doubt he makes that argument.

    Banier will retain the Speakers role and I predict we will get a bipartisan deal that allows right wing Republicans to continue to vote against the deal. The table has been set. The President just has to make sure that enough Democrats vote for Banier as Speaker to keep Ryan from becoming speaker.
     
  15. Big Blocker

    Big Blocker Well-Known Member

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    There was never an actual chance that Congress would not raise the debt ceiling before this Congress. Beyond that I don't know that whether the debt ceiling statute is a valid policy tool depends on whether Obama or anyone else voted not to raise it.
     
  16. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you it's clearly a debatable argument, I just don't see Obama making it since he himself voted against it and it's not clear cut either way.

    I don't think it's worth taking the chance especially since the SC is a right wing tool for creating conservative legislation.

    I also think the logjam is going to be broken as soon as Ryan is put back in his box. His desire to be speaker should and will be blocked by Democrats.
     
  17. Murrell2878

    Murrell2878 Lets go JETS!
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    I didn't realize that Democrats can vote for Republican leadership. Are you sure that they have a say if Boehner will be Speaker?
     
  18. Biggs

    Biggs Well-Known Member

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    The full House votes for the speaker. If it comes right down to it Democrats should be pushed by the President to make sure Ryan is defeated.
     
  19. Murrell2878

    Murrell2878 Lets go JETS!
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    I didn't realize that the opposing party could vote for the Speaker of the House. Interesting.
     
  20. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    The Speaker of the House is not a partisan position. It's a constitutional office created by the Constitution.

    The other positions of Majority and Minority Leaders and Whips and so-forth are partisan positions created by the parties to allow them to effectively function in a structure that did not anticipate, and in fact remonstrated against, the formation of political parties.
     

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