Of course there's no proof, but if you think that wasn't one of his conditions for coming to Denver then you are more naive than a 5 year old girl. Never said I did blame him. My guess is that Manning won't spend any more time developing Osweiler than any of the other back-up's he's ever had. I would also lay heavy odds against the idea that Osweiler will ever be a successful starting QB for the Broncos. Yep, yep, yep. Some would say they are more susceptible to injury in the pocket. Sad, but true.
Urban Meyer on the spread in the NFL (today): http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/trending/post/_/id/12455/urban-meyer-talks-alex-smith-tim-tebow
I dont see it lasting too many big hits waiting for these qb's. eventually each one of them is going to get seriously fubar. You need to use it as little as possible and just enuff to keep the DC shitting his pants about it monday-saturday.
But the part that is more interesting is the spread concept passing offense. The spread works entirely differently from other offenses in the NFL. The point is -- if they are using spread passing concepts, and it's working as well as it is working for RG3, Russell Wilson, and Cam, then it could be that we're seeing a next wave starting. Tebow aside (he's got his own problems), there has been much anticipation on who was going to be the first to try it (Again, it's not about a running QB alone). Josh McDaniels was probably the first, but he got canned for wrongdoing. Cam was a game changer, and now Shanny doesn't give a crap. He's doing it with RG3. (For the uninitiated, a spread offense does not tend to use timed routes with 5 and 7 step drops. It tends to spread the players way out, and make a key decision before the snap about where the ball is likely going. The routes do not use timing to get receivers open as much as it uses space. So a spread passer is more someone who looks at chess pieces on a board, and reads where the gaps are going to be to throw the ball. A conventional offense has "progressions," and everything depends on the timing of the footwork of the quarterback with the routes breaking open, 1, 2, 3). A conventional passing offense is rhythm and timing. A spread offense is looking and reacting by sight.
I agree with everything you said but and heres the big but... without the QB being at least a mild threat with the run, the spread like any offense can become 1 dimensional. So the QB to keep the defense guessing will have to take off occasionally in order to keep the defense on their heels and thats what bothers me (as a fan of some of these guys) and as a coach. Not a high end coach mind you just youth fb. from my limited understanding of the spread isn't the goal of the QB running ability to freeze the defense for a plit second allowing the routes to be run quickly and with little intereference? Again I could be wrong in my understanding as I have never really coached a true spread team.
Nope. Goal of the QB running is ALWAYS to make it 11 on 11 football, instead of 10 on 11. To freeze the defense for the split second, you use play action.
But even Alex Smith level mild threat can be enough. Not so much -- that developed from Tebow being such a run threat, they drew plays off of it. I think one of the main things (besides the 11 on 11 football mentioned above) is that the spread creates some incredible gaps that can be taken advantage of. If the defense spreads out with all the receivers, they are very thin near the box. And so you create looks where the quarterback ( or a back) can bust them by making a pre-snap read that a QB run will burn them. All of it is forcing the D to make a hard decision. Because if they bunch up in the box, there's numbers advantage outside the box.
By the way -- the main reason that the X's and O's geniuses said the spread can't work in the NFL (and they may be right, things are constantly evolving) is that the elite speed rush in the NFL is way too good in the NFL. And the pass rushers can shoot in the spaces created by spreading out and get the QB, or totally disrupt the play. They say that in the NFL, you must bunch up the linemen close together, and bunch them up in a "pocket," or else you will have Von Miller standing in your backfield.
They may be right. But there are a couple of caveats to that. When people talk about the speed of the defensive players, they somehow neglect to mention that the offensive players are a step up from college in that regard as well. No one can really say how a true running spread would work in the NFL. I tend to think it would work, for several reasons. First you force the defense to play 11 on 11. The quarterback is always a legitimate run threat. Secondly, because of this, and the way the passing game is implemented you don't need a guy who has a rocket arm, laser accuracy, and a computer brain to click through progressions. The throws you have to make in the spread are just totally different from the pocket. Not only is is almost impossible to double cover, the qb can always run it if the play isn't there. Maybe the defenses would catch up with running spreads in the NFL. In college football, the SEC is probably the conference with the most team speed of any in college football. No way are they the same as the NFL, but they come closer than any other college division. And the spread does just fine there. Another point I'd like to make is that guys like Andrew Luck don't come along very often. College teams for a number of reasons put out a lot more guys like Russell Wilson, and even Cam Newton, Tebow, and RG III than they do guys like Luck. Part of it is how popular spreads are in High School ball now. Then too I think playing in a spread is more natural for a lot of athletic guys who never will adapt to being a pocket qb. And I think there are a ton of guys in college now who could throw and run well enough to run a spread in the pros. Lastly, even though it is so different from the spread attacks I'm talking about, don't forget that Brady and even Manning play in offenses that owe a lot to the Air Raid, still a spread even though how they do it is very different.
If you had any idea what you were talking about, you would know that Peyton Manning is more demanding of his backups than the coaching staff is. He is very well known for working extensively with his younger quarterbacks and receivers, and is the best player-coach in the entire league. Also, Osweiler's potential is seemingly endless. He was a second round pick, as an underclassman, after only starting for one season as ASU.
/Sarcasm On Yeppers. That pretty much sums up how the Colts performed so well last year with their Manning backups. /Sarcasm Off SF
I said he was a very good and demanding mentor, and player-coach. I didn't say he was a magician. Curtis Painter is fucking horrible. I mean seriously... wtf is this shit?
Just because they are shitty doesn't mean that he didn't work with them, and demand that they watch film, and be diligent. I mean look at Tim Tebow. He has a phenomenal work ethic, and he's fucking horrible. I hate repeating myself, but because you are dense, I'll say it again; he is an amazing mentor, and player-coach, not a magician.
Ease up and check your roll Phaytal ....you are threading dangerous future signature ground with statements like that.
Tebow took a mediocre running team and gave them the #1 rushing offense in the league over a long stretch. That much is not open for debate, it's pure numbers. For perspective, consider if a guy took over a bad passing team and gave them the #1 passing yardage...fans would build a monument to the guy, even if the ground game suffered and his team went 8-8. So yes, the haters' argument last year was *absolutely* that it was a passing league, running yards don't count, and the option will never consistently work. It is only after a run-heavy option attack worked so well for San Francisco & Washington this year that the haters changed it to, "the option and rushing yards are great, unless Tebow is gaining them." I agree that RG3 & Kaepernick have some superiority to TT in areas, like throwing short timing routes and in straight ahead track speed. But, neither are among the best pocket passers in the game. If they were both slow, lumbering pocket guys, neither would be getting accolades for conventional passing alone. Kaepernick, especially, tends to be wayward throwing the ball and probably wouldn't be starting over Alex Smith except for his great ability to run option out of the Pistol formation. Tebow is unique, probably the biggest reason he's so hated. Kaepernick & RG3 give you quickness, speed, agility and accurate short-medium throws. Tebow gives you size & power, a special knack for ball-handling and timing in the running game, a pretty damn good deep ball, and will be the freshest and most clutch athlete on the field in the final minutes. Wanna run a multiple pass/run offense but limit your QB carries? Pick one of the first two guys. Wanna patiently wear defenses out & try to win in the 4th quarter? Pick Tebow. Wanna be a small-minded hater? Say something ignorantly critical that shows you don't watch or analyze any game film, and move on.
I think the spread is going to work. But it wouldn't surprise me if quarterbacks become stars and go away in a hurry running this. I think it is easier to get guys from college who can run the spread in the pros successfully. Not only because a lot of college teams are running it, but because they find it more natural than a pocket scheme, and by virtue of the scheme the throws are easier. But if you can't run, you can't run this version of the spread. I don't think you are any more likely to get hurt running the ball as a qb than standing in the pocket and taking hits, but you are going to get hurt eventually. And if you get the wrong kind of injury or enough of them you won't be able to run effectively anymore. Pocket guys can have two bad knees and all kinds of ailments and play a long time. I'm expecting qb's to have a lifecycle more like running backs, if a) a true spread works, and b) it catches on. While some teams are running it some now, I haven't seen a full blown, from the get go implementation. I think we will, maybe even next season. I also think it will work, and a lot of teams will go for it, because it is so darn difficult to get Andrew Luck type prospects through the draft.
RGIII could excel at being a pocket passer in the league right NOW. Tebow and Kaepernik could not excel at it. You forgot to add for your Tebow option, the gmae has to be close in the 4th quarter. It doesn't matter how much you wear the defendse down if you are down by 21 in the 4th. RGIII is clearly the best passer out of the 3 right now, the best QB out of the 3 right now, and all 32 teams would take RGIII right now. There's no debate to that. I do think there is a debate for Tebow vs Kaepernick but it leans towards Kap just because he has Harbaugh propping him up and making him overachieve. I might be wrong and Kap could be great without Harbaugh, but right now I think Kap is overachieving
