Scrambled, made plays.... and still led the league in three and outs, and leading the most unproductive Denver offense in decades. Sorry, not buying the idea that if you put Tebow in the shotgun he becomes a stud. The reason for the struggles was his inability to read defenses and his woeful accuracy. He needed time to think, and he got it when teams quit coming after him as much. So I kind of disagree with you that Tebow is the opposite from Sanchez. Tebow looked panicky as well. First sign of trouble, start looking for an exit to run in rather than looking for a receiver. Kinda felt that way with his whacky throwing motion too when his footwork was all over the place. Think when push comes to shove, he slips back to what he was able to get away with in college, and that is why he seems to struggle so much in the NFL. I think the coaches see it too, which is why he doesn't start even in Sanchez's struggles.
Would almost have to question just how much of him you did see last year. As has been said before, Tebow was most productive in the 4th Q. At some point, he was one of the league leaders in QBR in either the entire 4th Q, or something like the last 5 minutes of the game. Go back and look at this games. For someone who supposedly had so much trouble reading defenses, explain why he didn't throw ANY picks in 7 of his 11 games. He threw a total of 6 picks in 11 games, 3 of those picks coming in the Buffalo game where he actually made the "young QB" of trying to force things that weren't there in order to try and come back. He did that exactly once. Dirty little secret is that he's better at reading defenses than most people give him credit for. Certainly not at a Manning, Brady or Rodgers level, but pretty good for a young QB. As to the "most unproductive Denver offense in decades", again, look at the difference between how Tebow did in the 4th Q compared to the rest of the game. The 4th Q is where Tebow DID produce, and he did so in Spread formations working out of the gun, which is something that McCoy didn't run much in the 1st 3 quarters. Pass attempt breakdown by Q: QUARTER = 1 13.65% QUARTER = 2 19.93% QUARTER = 3 20.66% QUARTER = 4 43.17% Ironic thing is, of all teams in the NFL, you'd think that Jets fans would understand the impact of a shitty OC having shitty game plans with shitty play calling.
That's already been explained. You seem to think it was because he was good with it. You seem to think the ankle passes, dirt missiles, and 10 yard overthrows were done on purpose, playing it safe. From what I saw, he didn't throw a catchable ball. Passes were at peoples ankles and behind them because his timing was off and he was off the mark when he had good timing. He threw the ball less because the coaches didn't want him throwing it as much. They didn't trust him and if you ever watched the first 3 quarters of a game, you would have seen why. When you throw less, and more of your passes are uncatchable for receivers and defenders alike... you're gonna throw less interceptions. If games were 5 minutes long, Tebow would probably be a hall of famer. Unfortunately, games are 60 minutes long, and whenever the rest of the team didn't play a near flawless game keeping them in it while he punted the ball all day, the game was out of reach before his late game heroics would ever be a factor. No question he was better in the 4th. Not enough though to impress the rest of the league. You don't have to believe me until his career sinks because nobody will take a chance on him.
Nope, you have me confused with someone else . The bounce passes and 10 yard overthrows were due to inconsistency with his mechanics. If that's what you saw, then you weren't looking too closely. As stated above, he was inconsistent. Some of his passes looked great. Many of his passes were fine. But many of his passes were in the dirt or way off the mark. The point being discussed was his ability, or lack thereof, to read defenses. If he was as bad at it as you and others claim, then he should have had many more passes intercepted. Again, in my opinion, a lot of that stems from the play calling of Mike McCoy. On denver boards last year, there were plenty of people who complained about McCoy's game plans and play calling, and many of them were people who had serious doubts about Tebow. We'll see.
...and probably would have if he threw more passes. People complained about the play calling. I happen to think a lot of it was a reflection on what they thought of Tebow, and basically put in place to get around his obvious weaknesses. Even with an improbable and memorable run, the reception for Tebow from the Bronco top brass was luke warm at best. Wasn't hard to see that. Looking the same for the Jets too. How high on Tebow and his abilities would you say they are, based on what you have seen from the Jets? There's more to life than not throwing as many interceptions. That's nice, but he didn't move the chains either. THAT is what is killing his career.
Kind of why they go to the trouble of calculating INT RATE and Tebow's is very low. It very well could have been because of what they THOUGHT about Tebow. You're presuming that what they THOUGHT was correct. That's part of the problem. Ummm, sunshine, Sanchez was a top 5 pick, has had three years of starts under his belt and the Jets still went after Manning. Seriously, do people not understand basic, fundamental logic ? That Manning was available and teams went after him DOES NOT MEAN that the QBs of those teams aren't any good, or aren't "NFL QBs". What it means is that Manning was seen as being a BETTER QB. Duh, Peyton Manning is better than Tim Tebow. Who'd a thunk it ? Moved them enough to get his team into the playoffs and even come away with a victory, while the Jets were sitting at home watching.
...and you are assuming they are incorrect. Based on what, I can only guess. Forget the college stat sheets. Those are now 3 years back in the rear view mirror and in a completely different era of his football career. Apples to oranges, I'm afraid. Well, what are they supposed to think when way too high of a percentage of his throws go straight into the dirt? I DO believe it was correct. Of course he is. but you are missing one MAJOR part of the equation in the logic, and I'm starting to think some of you are doing it on purpose because it doesn't make Tebow look so good. That missing piece? Here we have a REALLY yough player who allegedly has sky high potential. Many think he alone was the reason the team went ANYWHERE. While I think that is misguided, that is the perception many have. It is also well known that he is VERY raw as a player and has a whole career ahead of him. Enter Manning, who could buy Tebow plenty of development time without being thrown into the fire. Give tebow 3 more years at least to figure out the finer things to a QB position. Here was a guy who was NEVER going to make headlines for a DUI or an arrest. Had a LOT going for him in the leadership department... ..and you know what the Broncos decide? That the TEAM is better off with Tebow playing somewhere else. Young guy, allegedly great potential, awesome at intangibles... has a playoff win under his belt... was dealt away for a 4th rounder. Even BEFORE Manning was available, anyone paying attention knew his days in Denver were probably numbered. Why did the Broncos think they were better off with him somewhere else with all that going for him? Why does it look like his days with the Jets are also numbered within the first year he was on it? The obvious answer seems to me to be that he's just not very good. The point is, just about any shmuck in the league could have done it with THAT defensive performance. Nothing special about Tebow winning those games when even Kyle Orton went 23-2 in that same circumstance... and Orton SUCKED!!! Can't excuse piss poor QB play just because they won on defensive performance.
Oh HELL!!! http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000104880/article/tim-tebow-ripped-by-anonymous-broncos-player Just saw this right on this site on the right panel. Apparently some Broncos players felt Tebow was holding them back too. I realize it is more anonymous bashing, but it DOES support what I'm saying that he just wasn't that good, and might point to one of the reasons the team thought they'd be better off with Tebow getting media coverage elsewhere. GOOD RIDDANCE!
Yeah, Tebow held them back huh ? This explains why they were 1-4 without him last year and 6-22 in the previous 28 games before he took over.
...and then went 1-4 down the stretch and backed into the playoffs with the worst offensive production in the league during that stretch.... even losing 7 to 3 in the last game. Orton probably would have won too with THAT defensive performance in most of those wins. Hell, Steven Hawking probably could have won 3 of those at QB. Absolutely he was holding the team back. Think what they could have done had they had a QB that could actually pass? Bet Manning would have had the team finishing at 13-3. I think an average QB would have had them at 9-7 or 10-6. But we had the three stooges, and all 3 are gone, and now the Broncos have credibility running the team again rather than some warm and fuzzy circus surrounding a really nice kid. Nothing special about what Tebow did last year. Kept getting bailed out until the end, and Bronco managment knew it. Most paying attention knew it.... but some who Tebow had charmed the pants off of are the only ones who don't.
Never seen a quarterback judged by the standard Tebow is held to. Coming out, people said he would take years to develop. Then he shows some ability, without ever really having a training camp with first team reps, and all these howling fans want to slam the book shut. Players are not immune from the polarizing hype-and they anonymously want to get in on the action. Adding to hype. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Ok, I'll take the time once again to demonstrate that you don't know wtf you are talking about, and while at it, that you are self contradictory. You just said that you believed an "avg" QB would have had that team at 9-7 or 10-6 huh ? And that Peyton would have had them at 13-3 ? Now, let's box you in so you can't try to wiggle out. You just said that Peyton would have had the team at 13-3. As the team started 1-4 with Orton at QB, and therefore, it would be impossible for anyone to make that a 13-3 team, you obviously aren't saying that any QB should have ended up 9-7 or 10-6 after taking over at 1-4. Rather, you are talking about what Peyton or an avg QB would have done with that team over a 16 game season. Let's take a closer look Genius. A 10-6 record is a 62.5% winning percentage. A 9-7 record is a 56.25% winning percentage. The team was 1-4 when Tebow took over. He then went 7-4 in the regular season. Guess what ? That's a 63.63% winning percentage. Including the post season, he went 8-5, which is a 61.53% winning percentage. Hmmmmmm. You said that an "avg QB" would have had a winning percentage ranging between 56.25 - 62.5%, Tebow had a 63.63% winning percentage in the regular season and 61.53% winning percentage for the entire year. Spelling it out, you know, just to again highlight the stupidity of your post, Tebow's winning % during the regular season was HIGHER than what you said an avg QB would have done, and for the entire season overall, his winning percentage comes in at the higher end of the range of what you stated an "avg QB" would do. Again, you simply DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. Then again, this point has been made clear many times, but apparently, it still hasn't prompted you into actually thinking about what you say before you post here and make a fool of yourself.
You idiot. (See? I can be a condescending snob too.) Now THAT was a stretch that would make even Mr. Fantastic proud. Had Manning been on the team, he wouldn't have been sitting behind Orton for 5 games. Had Manning been our QB last year, we would easily have gone 13-3. I said NOTHING about what would have happened if we started 1-4 first and THEN got Manning. If you wanna talk about just the final 11 games, I'd say we probably finish 10-1, MAYBE 9-2 at worst. AMONG THOSE GAMES (just in case you are confused again.) I think Manning wins those first 5 games easily, with maybe the exception of the Green Bay game. Look Genius. (See, I can be a condescending snob multiple times in a single post too.) Kyle Orton can win a bunch of games when the defense allows 15 points or less. He's 23 - 2 and he's a VERY shitty QB. If a shitty quarterback like Orton can do it, then what is so damn special about Tebow doing it 5 out of 6 times it happened last year? Why don't you understand that concept that even shitty QBs have a good record under those circumstances? So yeah, you're damn straight I think an average QB could have gotten us there. We just saw a shitty one do it. I think almost all starting caliber QBs could have done it as well as a few backups. YOU don't know what the fuck you are talking about... (do you have to make yourself feel better by using that line for the 100th time?) NONE of those stats explains how Tebow took us anywhere an average QB couldn't have. 15 points per game. How was Tebow special and better than an average QB? He got blown out twice by the Patriots as any average QV would have, got blown out by the Lions. Got blown out by the Bills, though I think an average QB could have beaten them. Got beat 7 to 3 by Kyle Orton of all people. ....and you're gonna tell me that since Tebow was lucky enough to get bailed out by a defense allowing 2 scores or less a game makes him better than an average QB? Damn straight I think an average QB would have won those games. Yeah, I'll have what you are smoking. Might make me think Tebow is a good QB too. Most average QBs would give their left nut to have a defense giving up that little. I wonder what their 56 game winning percentages would look like if they had the benefit of THAT for more than half the games they played last season? Probably would have won all 6 without looking rediculous most of the time.
Jesus, you don't even understand what was said. I know that you said that Manning would have gone 13-3 and that he wouldn't have been on the bench. My talking about your 13-3 comment was to establish the fact that you were talking about what someone else would have done FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON. That you said Manning would have gone 13-3 illustrates that. Kyle Orton was in his 6th freaking season if I remember correctly, it's kind of expected that he should be able to do more than a guy with fewer than 16 starts under his belt. The point that I'm making is that many around here make some seriously dumb assed statements such as saying that Tebow isn't an NFL QB, or talking about how badly he sucks, and there you are talking about how an "Average QB" would have gone 10-6 or 9-7 with that team. As I just pointed out, Tebow's winning percentage was right in line with what you were talking about, so that disproves the notion that he sucks as a QB. At worst, according to your own logic, with fewer than 15 starts under his belt, Tim Tebow was AVERAGE last year. "Oh, but anyone can win when defense holds teams to 15 points or less" you parrot Funny, just the previous season, Kyle Orton lost to KC by a score of 10-6. Oh no, Tebow and Denver got blown out by the Pats last year. LOTS of teams get blown out by the Pats, a team that freaking went to the SB last year. As for Buffalo, shit happens. Like our game against the Pats on Thanksgiving. Turnovers change the game, then guys try to do too much and things snowball all to hell. Think Tebow had a very uncharacteristic 4 turnovers in that game ? It happens, especially to young QBs. What did he do afterwards ? He took better care of the ball. When you boil it all down, we're still left with the FACT that YOU stated what an "Average QB" could have done with Denver last year and as I demonstrated, Tebow fell into and exceed the range that you mentioned, much to your chagrin.
Here, let me spell it out for you very simply, so that even you can understand it. Concerned_Citizen: Tebow sucks. With that Broncos team, a freaking average QB would have won 56 - 62.5% of their games. Demo: Ummmm, Tebow won 61.5 - 63.3% of his starts with that team. Concerned_Citizen: Fark, I look really stupid now huh ? Demo: (nodding head) Yep, ya sure do. Concerned_Citizen: You don't play nice do you? Demo: (nodding head again) Nope. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I did lump Orton in with Tebow because they BOTH suck. I don't see anything that would make me believe Tebow would have won any of the games Orton would have lost, and I can't really think of any games that Tebow won that I don't think Orton could have won. Maybe not in miracle fashion, but I don't see the Broncos sitting behind Miami 15-0 either with 5 minutes to go. I really couldn't possibly care less HOW long you played. You are either pretty good or you are not. Orton was not, but we don't disagree on that. I also don't buy into that idea that he had to be taking reps in camp. He got ALL the reps for a good 3 months plus change and STILL wasn't any better than he was on draft day. Well, some of the Broncos felt that way too if that article is an indication. I don't think questioning Tebow's ability as an NFL QB and saying he just doesn't have the skillset is dumb at all. I'm gonna keep saying it until Tebow goes out there and starts being an NFL QB rather than a cheap gimmick. You keep blasting Orton as if I give a damn about Orton. Well, I DID say he went 23-2, did I not? Obviously he lost a couple, but I don't understand why you refuse to give an inch on the idea that QBs have a stellar record when defenses give up 15 or less. Even Tebow. You "demonstrated" nothing of the sort. You took the average winning percentages of average QBS... (most of the games probably having a defense that allowed MORE than 15 points) and applied it across Tebow's record. I'm saying the Average QB probably would have won those same games Tebow did, therefore padding their win percentages. If ANY one of those games went over what was allowed in those games... NO pllayoffs. If the defense was merely average and allowed 18-20 points in each and every one of those games (Orton's defenses allowed an average of 28 the previous years) Tebow wins 2 or 3 games AT BEST!!! I realize you don't give a damn on just how his record came to be, it just is. Unfortunately for him... AND you... anyone actually being paid cares, have looked at it, and determined that while he was a lucky SOB last year... HE STILL SUCKS ASS!!!!
