Certainly you are entitled to your opinion, but....it's just that, an opinion. Speculate all you want, knock yourself out. If you want to speculate, why don't you speculate on how the Broncos defense - one of the worst in the NFL last year - could allow 15 points to one team and then 45 to the next. If you want to speculate, why don't you speculate on why the Tebow haters want to hang their hat on Denver's success last year being because the Denver defense held a bunch of back-up QB's, mostly, to 15 points or less in multiple games. Yep, there is, and I'm sorry you don't see it. Probably because you're blinded by some of the same things that a lot of Tebow haters are blinded and repulsed by, namely his strong character, morality and outspoken Christianity. I disagree with you, but for the sake of argument, let's say I agree with you. Of all the QB's starting for an NFL team right now, how many of them do you think will ever WIN a Super Bowl, either with their current team or with another team? And don't count the few who have already won a Super Bowl (Roethlisberger, Brady, Rodgers, Peyton, Eli coming to mind right off the top of my head). My guess is that no more than 5 QB's currently starting for an NFL team (that haven't already won a Super Bowl) will ever win one. That would leave in the neighborhood of 20 or so QB's who would never win a Super Bowl. So, should their teams just throw them out with the trash tomorrow? How many people watched Eli Manning's first few years in the league as a starter and thought, "dang, he's going to bring the Giants a few Super Bowl's before he's even remotely done with his career"? I haven't tried to deny his inconsistent accuracy. But completion % isn't the only important stat in the NFL, and he's been able to win in spite of it, so far. And I believe it is fixable. See my comment above about completion % not being the be all, end all stat, and winning. For starters, Russell was the #1 pick in the draft, so he came in with hugely higher expectations than Tebow. Second, he got the boot for reasons other than just his performance, and some of those reasons were no doubt largely to blame for his performance. If the Broncos success last season when Tebow took over was pure luck, then the law of averages would have brought it down a heck of a lot sooner than 2 games into the playoffs. But you go ahead and think that if it gives you comfort. What's this "you folks" stuff? Maybe my memory is sketchy, but I seem to recall you being quite the Tebow detractor....
The analogous example is a pitcher's win loss record. We may want to know his ERA, and the batting average he gives up. But we care about his win loss record because we known that in a win, he pitched well enough to win. Whether it was a tight game, a game where his team had a lead, or whatever, we know he pitched to the situation. When Tebow played well enough for his team to win, he shouldn't be overly faulted for statistics -- because we'll never know if he could have done more productivity if he had to. For example -- the defense did not do well against Minnesota giving up 32 points. Tebow threw for a passer rating of 149 that day, leading his team to a 35 point victory. Or, for example the game in the Black Hole with the Raiders -- the Raiders led 17-7 at the half. Tebow's passer rating was 98 in that game, and he threw for 2 touchdowns (Denver won 38-24).. Or, for example, the Pittsburgh game. Every one of those 300 yards was needed. And so stats, while relevant, must be looked at in the context of wins and losses. A pedestrian statisical performance in a win is just fine. A garbage time statistical showing is not worth much. Tebow had bad games, and needs to improve his statistical efficiency -- but the notion that his play was statistically bad enough (in light of the winning record) to banish him from the league? Not valid.
You make it easier and easier on us Tebow detractors with almost every one of your posts. If a pitcher has a 6.0 ERA and is a 20 game winner, everyone that knows anything about baseball knows that his team's offense is something very special, and carried him though most of those wins. A pitcher that gives up 6 runs per game has very little to do with his team winning any games. And even if he is the winningest pitcher on the team, I guarantee you that he is last in the rotation. Same goes for a quarterback that shits the bed for 55 minutes every week. Tebow is that 6.0 ERA pitcher. His team, for the most part, carried him.
There you guys go again, making assumptions about people when you have no idea about them and trying to make this personal. find me one post where I bagged on his character or Christianity. I never even told you my stance on Christianity and I never will because it isn't anyone's business. It's not the reason I don't think much of Tebow. In fact, I have a lot of respect for him, his character, his morals, his opinions, etc. What I don't like is that I don't think highly of him as a QB, and his zealots like you who see absolutely nothing wrong with his game continuously twist and spin and try to make it about something it is not. Yet again we have another idiot basically throwing out the "religious bigot" card and telling me I'm repulsed by his religion. EVEN when I never even talk about it. typical Tebow fan.... gotta stretch it and make the argument about something it is not... and you wonder why I hate Tebowmania so much. Maybe it isn't Tebow but his enablers who excuse his piss poor play and make wild accusations like that out of nowhere. you guys really think you are doing Tebow any favors with that? Maybe. It's up to each team to decide if the guy they have is someone they believe in. But the NFL isn't about just one guy on a team is it? they have to believe in a 53 man roster, not just one guy. Broncos didn't believe in Tebow as one of those 53 men, he's gone, and I'm glad they did it. Nope, not all important but he led the league in three and outs, had a really poor 3rd down completion percentage. Good in red zones, but trips there were VERY few and far in between. Can't find the stat but they HAD to have been near the bottom of the league in red zone trips. I think all those problems START with the completion percentage. Pretty stupid if you don't think that was a major reason for the problems with those other stats... probably the biggest. Three picks were traded to get Tebow at #25 overall. Expectations were sky high for him too. It did. He was 1-4 in his last 5... just like the Broncos were when he took over. They squeaked into the playoffs at 8-8 on the third tiebreaker after choking away the last 3 games (including a 7 to 3 loss to Kyle freaking ORton and the Chiefs) and getting beaten by the Buffalo Bills. ...and Tebow gets hailed as the greatest thing since sliced bread. Last time they needed 1 win out of the last 3 was a couple years or so before that where they needed 1 out of 3, lost all 3 including one to Buffalo, finished 8-8 but LOST the tiebreaker... ...and it got Shannahan fired, Cutler ultimately traded, and the worst excuse for a head coach in Broncos history. AMAZING what a tiebreaker can do to a franchise and the direction it goes, huh? Wonder why they didn't keep Tebow if he was responsible for it?
Nope nope nope. Tebow is something special. it was his WILL TO WIN that inspired the defense, so really the credit for what the defense did should go to Tebow. Those are HIS W's. Not the other 21 starters on the roster. It really didn't have much to do with the defense at all. Pretty epic stuff. Chuck Norris wears Tim Tebow pajamas to bed.
Easy to do what? You actually believe you're accomplishing something? Deriving some sense of self worth from posting on the internet? The point is he pitched well enough to win -- he used the run support he had and kept it between the ditches. The run support (such as a lead) factors in a pitcher's decisions on when to take chances, when to put the pressure on the batter, etc. Sure, all things held equal, lower ERA would be better. But the win-loss is relevant to the interpretation of the stats -- because a good pitcher is thought to have the ability to pitch differently with a 3 run lead or in a 0-0 game.
LOL i'm a Jets fan and sanchez fan. I don't want see Tebow take Sanchez' spot or reps but I'm not emotionally invested in TEbow's success or failures like the people on this subforum. so i'm not a detractor or a fan. I don't really even care about him, I don't wanna him in there messing up Sanchez' rhythm but i don't discount the possibility he can be successful somewhere else. I don't root FOR or AGAINST tebow is my point.
Could you please run down the list for us of all the MLB starting pitchers who were 20-game winners and had a 6.0 ERA in that same season? Appreciate that. While you're at it, please post your favorite unicorn picture. You don't have to, it's clear enough in the tone of your posts about Tebow and his supporters. The extremely personal nature of a lot of your criticism is a dead giveaway. No, you're correct, it isn't. Which makes it all the more strange why you posted earlier that you didn't think he could take Denver to a Super Bowl victory. Huh? Of course it is about a team, but the QB is by far the most important person on the team. Super Bowl's have been won by teams that had parts of the team that were bad but a good QB. But there have been very few Super Bowl's won by an otherwise good team that had a bad quarterback or a quarterback that wasn't a good leader. No, they weren't. Everyone and their brother who thought they were a draft expert said Tebow shouldn't be drafted until the 3rd round or later. The fact that he was drafted in the 1st doesn't change the fact of what a lot of people thought Tebow's actual draft value was (whether they were justified in believing that or not). It might have made them think he was overpaid, but it shouldn't have changed expectations. He was so maligned in the months before the draft that all he had to do was be able to chew gum and tie his shoes at the same time and he had already beaten expectations. He did that, and then some. I posted a few weeks ago about what the career record was of a few of the top QB's in the NFL when their defense allowed 45 points or more in a game. You should go back and find that. The answer is "not good". A few of those games Tebow didn't play his best, to be sure, but I'm not going to take him to task for those losses where his defense crapped the bed unless you and every other Tebow hater is willing to take Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers to task for the losses they have when their defense allowed 45+ points.
By the way, just hypothetically speaking, if the Jaguars decide to move on from Blaine Gabbert after this year, and trade for Tebow, and Tebow starts the whole 2013 season for them, amazingly raises his completion % to better than 60%, and the team ends the season 2-14, you're going to totally give him a pass on that, right? Right? Because as you said above, the "NFL isn't about just one guy on a team is it?" Right?
I see... Criticizing his inability to hit the broad side of a barn and get first downs means I don't like him because of his Christianity.... Incredible leap in logic. But then, such is the way of the Tebowner.
If he were completing 60% and utilizing the whole field (and not just a bunch of behind the line of scrimmage passes... and they go 2-14... I'm probably less inclined to blame him for it and think they have problems in other areas. I mean, he's probably moving the chains more, punting less, and probably putting more than 2 scores worth of points up there. So yeah, if he's putting points up in the 20s, I'm looking in other areas as the problem. Last year the Bronco offense was at its worst production in more than 2 decades. Nearly 3. Looking at the numbers, the production was actually worse after the switch. The win column went up, but scoring and offensive production was actually worse. Look it up. So how do we reolve that paradox? How did we get more wins with less offensive production after the switch? I'll give you a hint... IT WAS THE FUCKING DEFENSE!!!! Helllloooooooo, MCFLY!!!! That was kind of the way I felt about Cam Newton last year too. Much of the time, he was performing much of what I thought could be expected, but his team around him was horrid... which is why they had the #1 pick to get him in the first place. Don't know why, but he seems to have gone into a sophomore slump this year. Thought he was better a year ago.
Thank you for providing another example of the personal nature of your criticism of Tebow and his supporters. Right on cue. I'm guessing you don't think it has anything to do with the fact that they switched to a ball control, run heeaavvy offense when Tebow took over? Do you make the connection between that type of offense, and lower offensive production/points? When you run the ball 55 times in one game (as in 1st game against K.C.), do you think that is going to be a high scoring game for your offense? Or do you think that is going to keep the opposing team's offense off the field enough that they can't score as many points, either, keeping the game close and giving Tebow a chance to bring it home in the 4th quarter?
A 6 ERA was an arbitrary number I threw out to prove a point. You don't need to always take things so literally. But to apease your smart ass remark, Bo Newsome and Ray Kramer both were 20 game winners, and both had ERAs over 5. That put them at the bottom of my rotation, just like Tebow.
Oh I figured it could be something like, oh, maybe the defense is just that good. But I'm probably just crazy
There are about 30 teams in the NFL that would beg to differ. They could have had Tebow for peanuts. what is so hard for you to get...? Nobody believes in Tebow but his fans. Gabbert may be the single worst QB since Leaf, yet the coaches would rather watch him suck every week than have tebow on the field. Sanchez is only better than Gabbert in the league right now and Tebow isn't any closer to starting than he was in training camp. Tebow has never EARNED a job in the nfl, he was given it to him because Orton was so atrocious, the denver FO and coaching staff were like why the F not? Lets start him! And they thought so little of his game, they figured they would have a shot at Andrew Luck... you know the only real NFL QB out of the two of them... We all know how lucky Tebow was ...well until he went 1-4 over the last 5 games, you know, when defenses quit playing prevent and had enough film for tendencies... What cracks me up is you guys are so in love with Tebow the person, you refuse to acknowledge that what we are saying is absolutely true about his abilities on the NFL football field.
Starting Tebow costs about 7.5 million due to escalators in his contract and only a very few amount of teams are in position to change qbs right now. So no 32 teams in the league did not pass on him even thou they could get him for "peanuts". full explanation here http://forums.theganggreen.com/showthread.php?t=75490
