All it takes is one team to give you your shot. Doesn't matter how many suitors you have. What matters is when Tebow does get his shot, it is what he does with that opportunity.
I agree. I don't see his shot coming anytime soon though. Unless Sanchez gets hurt. Mark has stunk and played so poorly if anyone other than Tebow was behind him I think he would have been benched. But Tebow cant run the offense and Sporano clearly hasnt instituted much of a wild cat / option type system for Tebow.
I think Tebow could be starting soon. Who knows though. You may be right that Mark has the job til he's injured. But I agree, there is no special offense for Tebow.
Here's the thing, you just said you want the guy with more wins. This makes no sense because you are also discussing how different QBs have earned their wins. That's the confusing part. We can't put RGIII on a defense that holds teams to 15 points or less. That defense Tebow had gave up 15 points or less 6 times. The Broncos went 5-1 in those game. The Broncos gave up more than 15, 2-3. In they Miami game, the defense forced and recovered a fumble in overtime on the 36 yard line. Matt Prater then hit a 52 yarder to win the game. That means the Broncos went 1 yard maybe on their next 3 plays? Oakland game, 85 yard punt return by Eddie Royal, the game winner. Jets game, pick 6. Minny game, pick 6, INT to set up gw field goal. Bears game, forced a fumble in OT with Bears in FG range and pushed Barber out of bounds at end of 4th to preserve game. Chiefs game, held them to one touchdown all game. Now see here, the defense played a lot better than anyone remembers. Everyone remembers their poor performances and remembers Tebow's good performances. They don't remember how key STs and defense were for the Broncos. Now before anyone starts yelling "what about Tebow" before actually figuring why I wrote what I did, we are discussing the Broncos' defense and their performance. Not that they single handedly did anything, but that they were much more key elements in games than people remember. People don't realize that doesn't last for a season. You can't build a consistent team if you are banking on late drives and turnovers. All in all this comes back to my point that we need to look at QB W/L once their careers are done. QBs that are great are going to stay in the league a long time and develop a great W/L record. Not great QBs won't do this but might have good seasons (see Sanchez, Tebow, Vince Young -who is 30-17 if my bleacher report article is right which could be 100% inaccurate).
Sanchez's wins don't count on that list. He didn't do anything to help the team to win but Flacco, man, that guy is such a great QB and plays great for his team in the playoffs :breakdance:
That's a bunch of malarkey. I heard NFL commentators and media people say multiple times how Carolina's OC last year tailored the offensive scheme to what Cam Newton was used to and what he does best. I have heard the same thing about Washington and RGIII this year, even heard someone say it looked like the Baylor offense. You can say that till the cows come home. And yet...8-5 last year, playoff win against the #1 defense in the league. Can't make up your own facts. I don't know whether Mike Tomlin thought before the game about whether Tebow was a threat or not, but I'm pretty sure after the game he had a definite opinion on the topic.
Against: Matt Moore, Matt Cassel/Tyler Palko, Mark Sanchez, Caleb Hanie and Kyle Orton. They only held one team to 15 points or less with a QB who is considered pretty good, and that's Philip Rivers. Of the 5 games they lost with Tebow at the helm, only one opponent scored less than 40 points! ONE! Not even Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady is going to consistently be able to overcome a defensive record like that. In fact, I would love to know how many games Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady have won in their careers - combined - when their defense gave up 40 points or more. Without going back and doing the research, my guess is less than 5. Total. And you guys are killing Tebow because the Broncos offense gave up that many points 4 times in a single season and he couldn't overcome that to win the game? Get real. That vaunted Denver defense also gave up 32 points to the Vikings with Christian Ponder at the helm, who was one of the worst QB's in the league last year. I just crack up laughing when I see folks cite these plays as though they were some sort of miracle from Heaven that only happened because God wanted Tebow to be successful. These kinds of plays happen in darn near every game in the NFL, on every Sunday. They're just a nice rallying point for the Tebow haters to point to and say "see, he really didn't have much to do with winning that game". The double standard Tebow is judged on versus his peers continues to astound and amaze me. Okay, wait a minute. You said that we need to look at QB W/L records once their careers are done, in order to determine if they were great or not. So, you're saying we shouldn't be doing that yet with Tebow/Sanchez or any other very young QB. And then you class Tebow as a "not great QB". What gives, you just broke your very own standard that you put forth earlier in the very same paragraph!:rofl: Personally, I think Joe Flacco is one of the most overrated QB's in the NFL. There is an example of a good W/L record that is helped along substantially by a stout, top-ranked defense over the course of his career to date. Kind of like Mark Sanchez in his first few years. Give Joe Flacco a fair to bad defense and his W/L record doesn't look nearly so shiny. Kind of like Sanchez' record since the beginning of last season.
I was too curious about my own point regarding Rodgers and Brady, so I did the research real quick and here is what I got. Aaron Rodgers: In the 4 years Rodgers has been the starter, the Packers have only given up 40 points or more to an opponent twice - in 4 years. The Packers are 1-1 in those games. Tom Brady: In the 12 years Brady has been the starter, the Patriots have only given up 40 points or more to an opponent twice - in 12 years. The Patriots are 0-2 in those games. In games where the Patriots gave up 35 points or more with Brady at the helm, their record is 2-6 So, the Broncos vaunted 2011 defense gave up as many 40+ point games in ONE season as the Packers and Patriots did in SIXTEEN(!) combined seasons (4 Packers seasons and 12 Patriots seasons), in which Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady were a combined 1-3 in those games, and you want to kill Tebow for going 0-4 in those games when he didn't even have a full season of starts in the NFL yet until the Patriots game in the playoffs? He definitely played poorly against Kansas City last game of the season, no excuses, and playing even a little better could have won the game, but you're killing him for not bringing the team back to win when the Denver defense gave up 40+ points? And Fox had the team run, run, running the ball until the 4th quarter, as usual? Really? As I said in my previous post, not even Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady could do that with consistency.
At no point did I "kill" tebow for not winning games where they gave up 40 plus. I am praising the defense for those 6 games they held teams under 15 points. That's some incredible play and im those 6 games they scored 7 and set up the game winning field goal in OT by forcing a fumble and saved another game in OT by forcing a fumble. Things that happen every game is nick Novak missing field goals and you see how I didn't include that? People have selective memories when it comes to that broncos defense, they were inconsistent like tebow but played great at times and played great at end of games. Think about that, in 6 games of tebows 11 they held the game to a two score game. That's incredible. To go on. I said we good QBs will stay in the league a long time as amass a W/L that is more reflective of their skills. QBs like young, Sanchez, tebow might have good W/L on small samples BUT probably won't stay in the league long enough to amass a great W/L over a long career. The funniest part of this is you thinking me saying the defense played well usain attack on Tebow. I even stated I'm not discussing what tebow did because I'm talking about how the defense did was underrated. It's not black and white. I'm giving the defense it's fair dues while you see not. If you want to talk how tebow played then yes he played well at the end of games and struggled to put together consistently good game. His slide to end the season at 1-4 was worrying because those were must win games and he turned the ball over including back to back pick sixes at one point. It showed his struggles and the broncos struggle as a team containing passing offenses, playing consistently through 4 quarters let alone a stretch of a games. That defense doesn't need to be ripped down to say tebow played well. It isn't one or the other. When the defense played well they allows Tebow to get that last drive and at times even stopped game winning drives and set them up. Nobody would care about these performance if tebow didn't go down the field to win the game, and nobody would reber these tebow performances if the defense let up more than two score. Nobody would remember the bears game where tebow played well but the defense and special teams played insane. Interesting thought process but the team played inconsistent all season and there is no need to rip some great albeit inconsistent play to prop up tebow. It isn't one or the other.
So you are saying a very crappy broncos team with tebow at qb was only 8-5 last year because they face an unbelievable stretch of rally crappy or backup QBs. That is all you need to know. So tebow can be a winning qb in this league if he either has a defense that can hold teams to less than 15 pts or play a crappy offense that can only put up less than 15 pts. Does it really matter if the defense is food or the other offense is crappy? It tis the same point.
I have acknowledged in a post just yesterday, I believe, that Denver's defense had some very good games and they had some very bad games. How is that having a selective memory? You want to rip me for having a selective memory by pointing out some of their very awful lapses in 40+ point games, while you have a very selective memory by bringing up their better games while practically ignoring their very bad games. To be perfectly honest, considering the opposing QB's who were at the helm in most of these games, I'm going to say that "incredible" is a little too strong of a word. "Very good", I'll go with that, considering that, on balance, Denver did not have a good defense last year. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but this is pure speculation. Nope, you're giving them dues for their good games because it supports your argument, you're practically ignoring their awful games as a defense. I already acknowledged that they had some very good games and some very bad ones. Yep, he did, although the game was already getting out of hand in favor of the Bills at that point in the 4th Quarter. He was pressing, trying to bring them back, interceptions are certainly not something I'm going to beat him over the head on, considering how few he threw throughout the balance of his playing time last year. Don't think I did that. I just pointed out a little more objectively than you did, that Denver's defense had some crap the bed performances last year in some of their losses with Tebow under center, losses that all the Tebow detractors want to pin solely on Tebow. Nope, I'm saying he doesn't deserve all the blame for their 5 losses last year, and all the detractors want to pin it solely on him. By the way, in case you weren't aware, ball-control, run-heavy offenses generally don't score a lot of points. That's what Denver was last year with Tebow under center because of the extremely conservative play-calling of John Fox and Mike McCoy. When the Broncos would routinely score more points in the 4th quarter and overtime than they scored in the first 3 quarters of the game, because they were forced to throw the ball because of trailing, it certainly does not lend credence to the Tebow haters' argument that he can't throw the ball and can't score in a passing offense.
Yeah and how did that work out for them? 5 / 6 wins? There are several reasons why they lost but carolina really hasnt set the team up with the talent needed to run the perfect offense for cam. sure they did as much as they could but they need 2 more WR and a TE that are built for a spread type offense. not all WR are built for that type of scheme.
Looks like we are on the same bring thoughts. The D like the whole team was inconsistent wavering from great to bad. And I disagree that the plays the defense/ST were normal plays. Prater's leg was amazing and two turnovers in two OT games is not normal. Nick Novak missing, now that's ordinary and regular. Incredible at times is fair I think. They held teams to 15 points or less in 6 games. That means two scores can tie a game at any point and time in the game. 2 vs 3 scores is a huge difference in my mind. Also, one of the reasons CAR switched their whole offense was they drafted Newton and had all offseason to do it. Teams with Tebow have half a season, HUGE difference
So, you're saying if they had Newton running a traditional NFL offense that he wasn't at all familiar with, it would have resulted in more wins?
No, I am saying that they didnt really go "all in" they did as much as they could but its not like the drafted a bunch of WR / TE / O-Line that ran his offensive system in college. He runs a hybrid offense and its not working to well right now is it? Thats why people wont do it for Tebow, you need to change out your entire offense, you need WR that will BLOCK more than they receive, you know how many WR in the NFL want to play on that sort of team? ZERO.
Why is it that you can sum up the problem so well, but then continue to distort and bend the truth in the other posts I've read from you? :breakdance: This really seems to be the main issue. Coaches in the NFL are incredibly risk averse. They like going along with what convention says they should do. So they look at Tebow, and see a guy who doesn't do quick dump off reads, execute the footwork they like, or throw the ball with the nice compact motion. They're most often more concerned about getting the ball out quickly than looking for a deep throw. Putting in Tebow is an all or nothing deal. I don't think it would take 2 years, like you said, but at least 1 good offseason would be necessary to get everything working smoothly. If things don't work out... then the coach looks like an idiot and gets run out of town. With that being said.... I don't see why Rex would be so hesitant to at least use him effectively while he's the backup. There seems to be more going on than the simple "don't want to play Tebow, and look stupid" mentality.
Tebow operates best from a spread option attack, not a "zone read" offense like Denver had him running last year. They did their best, and quickest, scoring of points when they got behind and were forced to let Tebow throw the ball to move the offense down the field quickly. Sure doesn't fit the idea that he can't be successful in a throwing offense.
If you guys watched MNF you would think Andy Reid will be a fool for putting an unmobile Nick Foles behind the disaster that is the Eagles O-Line.
Maybe, but it's at point where he should change him. I know he has already stated Vick will be the QB next week, but Vick has regressed terribly and was horrible tonight. He is the worse redzone QB I have seen. He has no blocking, but he has no pocket presense either. If you can't get more than 13 points against N'awlins, you've got problems.
