I'm not saying Tebow shouldn't get credit for some of the wins but not all of them. This is a TEAM game and me being HC knows that more then some. Yes Tebow had a good season last year but it was not good enough to let him be a starter. Sanchez in 2 of his first 3 season took the Jets to AFCCG now to give all the credit to Sanchez for doing that would be stupid just like it should be that way for Tebow. My point is Sanchez has done more in this league then Tebow has so he has earn the right to be the starter not Tebow.
oh yeah it Sanchez fault that Revis,Holmes went down. It also his fault that Keller and Hill been out most of the season? The point is the NY JETS are 3-4 not just Sanchez. I'm not saying he not to blame some but he not all the blame.
But what has he done to deserve all of it? Usually the face of the franchise is either the QB or the best player if it happens to be at another position. ...at the very least, it should be a starter somewhere. However, it seems almost every play he makes in the few times he sees the field seems to make the hilight reels, even if unspectacular. Looks to me like the media is trying to prop him up. Sounds like overrated to me. Not sure why you guys are arguing semantics here. He had a huge following and a lot of hype since the day he was drafted, and perhaps before.
It isn't just this board though. There were legions of fans in Denver that started a website dedicated to getting him the starting job, and even paid to post billboards asking him to start. Across the nation, there is a HELL of a lot more people than 10 who think the guy walks on water, think he's getting screwed by the Jets and Broncos, and blame all his shortcomings on everyone else. Can't think of any other player that gets a free pass from so many like that. Maybe some do, but nowhere near the scale of what Tebow gets. Or the praise. It's a two way street. Conversation would have died a long time ago if it were just about the critics. There are a lot of defenders who take ANY criticism as some sort of a personal attack that MUST be defended. Almost like a partisan Republican vs. Democrat war. religion probably has a part in both sides, but a lot of his supporters are legions of gator fans too. he's their John Elway. Others follow him blindly because they bought into all that hype, absolutely LOVED what he represented, loved his values, loved his charm... and simply invested themselves emotionally in the guy and just won't accept the idea that he might not be all that good. They want that feel good Rudy type story to tell their kids about. You misunderstand me, and I suspect you are doing it on purpose. Never once said it was my civic duty to make sure he gets NO credit. I've given him plenty for the few things he did do right, even on this website. I've pointed this out to you a couple times already.
While having his own message board does go against the norm, nobody says that you or anybody else has to post on it or express your opinions herein. Having said that: Who is more "overrated" Tim Tebow 56% (8-6) Winning Percentage as a Starter 1 Playoff Win or Sam Bradford? 33% (11-22) Winning Percentage 0 Playoff Wins or Josh Freeman? 41% (19-27) Winning Percentage 0 Playoff Wins or any Cleveland Browns QB (last three years)? 26% 10-29 0 Playoff Wins or Blaine Gabbert? 25% 5-15 0 Playoff Wins or Matt Cassel (w/KC)? 43% 19-25 0 Playoff Wins or Kevin Kolb? 43% 9-12 0 Playoff Wins or Kyle Orton (w/Broncos)? 36% 12-21 0 Playoff Wins or Ryan Fitzpatrick? 39% 16-25 0 Playoff Wins Now we can sit here and talk about how pretty these guys look throwing the football or we can talk about who LEADS their team to victories. Nobody here is saying that Tebow is the best there ever was but what most of us are saying is that he has NEVER been given the opportunity to play out a full season from OTA's, Training Camp, Pre-Season, and regular season to get acclimated to the offensive system (3 different systems in 3 years), the offensive players (timing and cohesiveness), reading defenses, stability at QB coach, or having an offensive system built around his talents like he had in college. He hasn't had any of what was previously mentioned, yet he is constantly berated by you, the talking heads, and anybody else that wants to add their two cents on the subject without looking at the entire picture. The sad part is that we will probably never know how good he could have been because he will never be given the chance in a league that likes to recirculate, or better yet, ebraces insanity (doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results) and stay the status quo out of fear. There is nobody with the balls enough to take a chance and reap the rewards. What could it hurt for some of those teams to give it a shot? Look at what happened in Denver when they half-heartedly changed their offense after the Detroit game to fit his talents. Obviously by the above stated winning percentages with their current QB's there wouldn't be much to lose and far more to gain by seeing what he could do.
That's an epic post. LOL I must admit. My wizards and unicorns are just put there when it makes no sense to argue back and forth. no matter what i say to you or you say to me, we are not going to change our minds. we do agree on some things though. If you want me to say something seriously, then I think the creation of this section is actually the opposite , its not a tribute to him man. You were right the first time though. Its because of his over exposure in the media the players voted that way.
CC please read the whole thing, do not just skim it. Because when he came out of college 99% of analyst said he would not be an NFL QB Then when he was drafted 99% of all analyst said he would never play a down at QB in the NFL Then when he played 99% of the analyst said the team would never win games while he played QB Then when they won games....well you get it. its the absolutism of the T-haters that has wrought Tebowmania (specifically with the word never). I know that if he would have been treated like lets say Blaine Gabbert , where they said things like "he needs time to develop" " he has a lot to work on" etc etc. Like any normal first year QB would , then the mania would never have happened but what it did is it caused Tebow fans and tebow haters alike to plant their stake into the ground and go at it. Another fascinating thing is tebow , unlike any other player maybe ever, makes everyone right. He totally sucks throwing the football ...and he does for 3 and 1/2 quarters or sometimes even for all 4. He totally can handle the pressure and pull out a win in the 4th.... and he can. His mechanics are horrible ... and they are He is a different type of QB, he moves the chains with his legs making up for the bad mechanics ...and he does. so basically as a T-hater you could probably say what you want about him and you would be correct. As a Tebow fan I can say what I want about him and I would be correct. That schism causes an apocalyptic level debate. last but not least , if you think the media is propping him up , you are wrong. He is a punching bag.
Is Tebow overexposed by the media? One can make an argument for that, especially with the coverage since the 2012 season started. The why of this is a topic for another thread. Is Tebow overrated? No, he is absolutely not overrated, for 2 big reasons. 1) Hardly anyone "rated" him highly in the first place. Brian Urlacher said Tebow was a good running back. I'd like to know how many good running backs have beaten Urlacher's Bears with their passing in the 4th quarter and overtime like Tebow did. 2) See the numbers below. They don't lie. In the last 5 years there have been 21 total new QB's who have come into the NFL and have started more than a few games for reasons other than injury to the starting QB. Tebow has the 5th best Winning % out of that entire group of 21 QB's. If anyone can make a case for that being overrated then they are one hell of a used car salesman. 14 of these QB's were chosen at a higher draft spot in their draft year than Tim Tebow was in his draft year. Tebow has a higher Winning % than all but 2 of those 14 QB's chosen before him in the draft (including 4 who were chosen #1 overall - Luck, Newton, Bradford, Stafford). Here is the list, and for the sake of comparison, since so many of Tebow's detractors love to say that the defense was primarily responsible for Tebow's success, I have also listed the team defense ranking for the 4 QB's ahead of him on the list, averaged over the course of their tenure as a starter for their team. Of these 21 QB's, I see some names that are definitely overrated, but none of them are named Tim Tebow. 1) Matt Ryan - 68.57% W - 10th best ranked defense (averaged) during starting tenure 2) Joe Flacco - 67.08% W - 7th best ranked defense (averaged) during starting tenure 3) John Skelton - 61.53% W - 18th best ranked defense (averaged) during starting tenure 4) Russell Wilson - 57.14% W - 3rd best ranked defense (averaged) during starting tenure 5) Tim Tebow - 56.25% W - 28th best ranked defense (averaged) during starting tenure 6) Mark Sanchez - 55.55% W 7) Andy Dalton - 50% W 8) Andrew Luck - 50% W 9) Ryan Tannehill - 50% W 10) Robert Griffin III - 42.85% W 11) Matt Stafford - 42.85% W 12) Chad Henne - 41.93% W 13) Josh Freeman - 41.30% W 14) Christian Ponder - 41.17% W 15) Sam Bradford - 33.33% W 16) Cam Newton - 31.81% W 17) Colt McCoy - 28.57% W 18) Jake Locker - 25% W 19) Blaine Gabbert - 25% W 20) Brandon Weeden - 14.28% W 21) Jimmy Clausen - 10% W
Agree on the making everyone right part... however, I think you were wrong about the critics when he came into the NFL. (Sure as hell wasn't 99% negative.) Sure, the talking heads at ESPN and others analysts weren't high on him, but the general media played this guy up as some sort of a good guy, people bought into him, and believe it or not, he was a HUGE celebrity in Denver long before he ever took a snap. that's about all you heard about was... "when is it Tebow time?" They didn't care if he was ready or not, they didn't care if he needed a lot of development time. They just wanted their guy out there. I still say he's overrated, because there are far too many people who have an inflated view of what he did last year. I'm NOT saying (pay attention Backup QB) that he deserves no credit, or didn't contribute at all. I'm just saying he got far too much credit for the turnaround last year when several of us listed as many as 8 or 9 other things that were going on that also contributed. Yet people wanna say it was the switch and don't see anythign else. THAT to me, = overrated.
Nice stat sheet. Here's what that stat sheet DOESN'T tell you. in 5 of those 7 wins he got in regular season, the defense held the other team to 15 points or less. Many of those came down to some last minute miracle or brain fart on the part of the other team. Good job capitalizing on it when it mattered, but almost every QB in the league has a pretty stellar record when the defense allows just 15 points or less in most cases. Kyle Orton was 23-2. But NOBODY is going to try to make the argument that he was any good even if he did manage a .500 record when the defense was allowing an average of 28+ points per game (which it did during most of his tenure.) It WAS the defense. Without the low scores, Tebow would have had 3 wins at best.
Actually I agree. When it has a subtitle that says, "Keep the Tebow hysteria in this forum..." it kinda feels like Tebowmania has been quarantined from the rest of the Jets talk. (Smart move, actually, because he does generate a lot of polarization.) But I have seen forums where Tebow had his own link to keep up with Tim Tebow related news. The Broncos had a couple due to the huge amount of interrest. (That and the flood of gator fans who jumped on the bandwagon, who really only cared about Tebow.) So it DOES go both ways.
But why have I heard numerous people say that Kyle Orton is a good quarterback, that he gave the Broncos the best chance to win, and he got signed by Jerry Jones for $6 million (far more than Tebow makes). The double standard is that for Tebow we're expected to receive evidence that he might not be ready to play at an elite level, that he might not be a franchise quarterback, and we're expected to jump all the way from there to "cannot play the position at an NFL level." It's that claim that invites closer inspection of the results he has achieved. It's that claim, which is an extraordinary one to make for a quarterback who has led his team to a postseason victory, which is greatly undercut by the ability to preside over wins -- for surely he played well enough to win in those games. The win in the black hole over the Raiders was not a low scoring affair or a comeback -- it was a thrashing. The win at the Vikings was not a low scoring affair -- it was an offensive shootout. Same with Pittsburgh. In fact, I cannot imagine a universe where some quarterback, not named Tim Tebow, had such results and was immediately deemed unable to play. If he were anyone else -- Matt Flynn, Tyrod Taylor, whoever -- people would also be excited about the prospects of him getting another chance to start and continue his development.
Intelligent tebow fans (and they represent quite a bit of tebow fans) understand it was not all him. In this sub forums as an example , there are about 10-12 Tebow fans that post regularly, every single one understands it was not all him. This is my personal belief on Tebow and what he did last year. If you do not agree let me know which part you do not agree with , if you do agree, then we agree. Keep in mind I am one of the most vociferous Tebow fans and this is what I saw and believe. Tebow was not the only reason the Broncos completely turned around that abysmal record and ended 8-5 with a playoff win , obviously special teams and defense were a huge part. BUT without Tebow the Broncos do not go 8-5 with a playoff win , as Tebow is one of the 3 pieces that were necessary to get that accomplished. Quinn and Orton would not have had that success running the traditional offense. The Tebow offense McCoy and Fox installed was better at getting wins and Tebow executed it very well (especially for being throw into it in the middle of the year). The other two components for the turn around where defense and special teams . Yes tebow had hot 4th quarter drives that got Praeter in position but prater came through again and again. The defense made stop after stop and Tebow executed a made out of thin air offense to the point where Denver was the #1 rushing team in the league .... It all worked, together. Therefore Tebow deserves as much credit for the turn around as the defense and the kicking game (he was one of the 3 pieces) .
:up: Great post. I have been trying to figure out why those losing programs won't give Tebow a shot. What could be the possible reasons? I guess there is no plan B for Tebow's system if he is injured. They can't afford to brind Newton back as his backup one more time. Therefore the risk is very high if they try to draft, trade and sign players for Tebow's spread offense. Unlike RG3, the colossal sunk costs can justify any crazy movement in order to give RG3 0.00001% more chance to succeed. Tebow's stock is cheap. Therefore they don't want to change. I guess it's like guys don't like to make commitment to girls easy to get.
It should be obvious why -- the web traffic goes through the roof because even people that dislike him (or don't think much of him) are for some reason interested in him. Take yourself, for example -- you're devoting part of your day on a frequent basis to come here and discuss him.
This forum, the Tebow fans and Tebow detractors on it, Skip Bayless and the rest prove absolutely nothing. A poll a few months back showing that Tebow is the most popular athlete in the entire country shows a lot more. NFL players watch ESPN too, and they are tired of all the interest Tebow gets, probably even jealous. The great majority of NFL players are faceless to the American Public. Not many people know(due to helmets covering their faces during national tv exposure) or even care who they are. They are fantasy league pawns for 9 to 5 ers, nothing less nothing more. Tebow is different. Like him or not, people care about Tebow because he is different than almost any of us by being a real life example of living the teachings of Jesus Christ to a tee. I am Agnostic, so don't get it twisted, but I do admire him, and it is fascinating.
Seriously how old are you? Those talking heads are making big bucks to create controversies. I can't understand why a regular John Doe would spend so much energy on negative things. Seriously, go out and take some fresh air before you need to see a therapist. Never let negativity consume your heart.
Here is what you fail to understand. When you have the ability to turn your offense in the #1 rushing attack in the entire NFL it eats up clock and makes it much easier on your defense. Creating less opportunities for the opposing teams offense. When you also throw only 6 ints (4 of them in one game) throughout the course of an entire season it also is a great help to your defense. The Broncos defense was rated 22nd in the league last year, to say the incredible turnaround of a lowly NFL franchise was all defense is about as silly as you spending so much of your life pumping out post after post on a Tebowmania forum.
