1. I "think" that the clock does not start until the returner touches the ball so the 2:06 to 2:01 is correct if you watch the play and count in your head. 2. You can see, in the above video, the ref comes in to the bottom of the screen with his "clock stop" wave already going so it all looks perfectly legit. 3. Homer clock management exists in every single stadium including the Jets. 4. If this happened at home, for the jets, how many milliseconds would you entertain the other teams fans with this complaint? Edited to add......I watched the above video and hit the pause button at the instant the Jet player fell on the ball......the clock said 2:02
The play wasn't "ongoing" just because players were still rolling around on the ground and adding to the pile. The Jets player grabbed the ball, rolled on top of it, and got touched by a Patriots player. At that point the play is over. According to the NFL rules that I quoted, the clock operator is within his rights to stop the clock, even if the refs have not signaled anything. Also, I have a hard time accepting that it is a "big deal" considering the Patriots could have spiked the ball before the FG attempt instead of using a timeout. At the time of the clock stoppage it might have been a big deal, but looking back there is no reason to think anything would have changed. The Patriots would have gotten the ball with one less timeout and 2-3 less seconds (according to you) on the clock... unlikely to affect their playcalls, and as I already explained, they still would have had more than enough time at the end of the game to kick a FG by spiking the ball first.
The reason the rule is like that is clock protection in cases where a ref cannot give the signal (incapicitated/injured) or makes a mistake and its obvious (in their words 'positive').. not in instances like this where he's trying to benefit the home team. He stopped the clock the absolute milli-second it touches the Jets player's hand.. Considering.. A) He did this without being signaled to B) It wasn't a sure bet the Jets recovered (judging by the wrestling match they allowed afterward) and C) It tremendously helped the Patriots (and would've either way, recovery or not)... This is home cooking at its finest, make no mistake.. I'll give him credit for knowing how helpful it would be to stop the clock at 2:01, but it doesn't change the fact that he do so to screw the Jets, not because he was certain the clock should be stopped.
McCourty caught inside the EZ, the clock didn't start until he was near the 10. the fact that he stops the clock too soon shouldn't have come into play if he started it anywhere near when McCourty caught the ball.
It screwed the Jets, but the clocked stopped exactly when the Jets player had full control of the ball and was touched on the ground. 2:01 is technically correct, we are just used to seeing the clock continue a second or two after the play is already over.
It didn't "help out the Patriots tremendously". The Pats ran out time at the end of the game before calling a timeout and kicking a FG. They could have used that same time to spike the ball, kick the FG, and end the game with a timeout leftover. Other than that, I don't blame you for what you are saying. I think the league has a reasonable argument that the clock operator got it right, though.
Two things, first the clock operator would've had NO idea that's how the game would wind up, he just was trying to save a Timeout late in the game. A tremendous benefit AND It DID help them out tremendously. Don't try to downplay it. First of all, its very difficult to run up, get set, and spike the ball in that short of a time period. They certainly could HAVE but it would've been tremendously more difficult than just calling a time out. Also, it gives the kicking team less time to get set up for a field goal because they are going on the play clock and not a stoppage in play (time out) Considering that exact situation occurred earlier in the year for you guys and it resulted in a missed field goal (arizona), I would think you more than anyone would realize how important that was for the Patriots.
You guys would have had a great chance to tie it but you know playing w/ no timeouts vs. w/ a timeout is a completely different ballgame.
You can't say that. The ref who comes running in to the bottom of the picture at 2:01 is waving the "clock stop" signal. You have no idea how many seconds he was waving like that before he came in to the picture.
IT DOESN'T MATTER, the clock was not started until McCourty was at the 10 yd line, there's our other second. They screwed it up, did it cost us te game? No, we still should have won but it made things much easier for NE. It was a completely botched call.
He's not in the screen, but considering the media is saying he wasn't signaling at 2:01, and he wouldn't have signaled the exact millisecond a Jets player just touches the ball, indicates a huge possibility to me and everyone in America that he wasn't.
I understand that it might have been a big deal at the time of the clock stoppage. But looking back, I don't believe it would have made any difference. The Patriots last play prior to the FG ended with 11 seconds left. Any team can gather themselves and spike a ball in that amount of time. If you want to argue that the difference between 40 seconds of playclock compared to a 2 minute timeout would have significantly affected Gostkowski's accuracy, you are free to believe that, but saying it would have been a "tremendous" difference is overstating it IMO.
but they were playing w/ a TO in their backpocket, it's very different to play knowing you don't have any TOs. You still could have done it but it would have been more difficult.
Not true. The clock is at 2:06 at the start of the play. As McCourty reaches the 10 yd line, it hits 2:05. That means that the clock operator most likely hit the "Start" button 1-second prior to McCourty reaching the 10-yd line, which hardly seems unreasonable.
It shouldn't have made a difference. The Jets should've scored a TD, or at least picked up a damn first down after that fumble and shut the door on the Patriots, but it did have a very big impact. It's not overstating it considering the Patriots already failed in that exact situation earlier in the year.
Not really. They were pressed for time with or without the timeout. Their playcalling was all about getting down the field into FG range as quickly as possible. I don't see why that would have been any different without the timout "in their backpocket".
Kickers occasionally miss 40+ yd field goals. You are only drawing comparisons between the situations because it happens to be convenient to your argument. The commentators read a stat that said Gostkowski was something like 29-of-30 in fourth qtr FGs... the one you mention was the only miss... you don't think that maybe he has made a bunch of those pressure kicks as well? EDIT: The exact statistic was that Gostkowski was 41 of his last 42 in the final quarter.
it should have been at least 2:04 by the time he reached the 10, it was started late and stopped too soon. We got screwed by a horrendous job w/ the clock. Again, we had our chance to stop you and failed but I would have liked to see you w/o a TO, things could have been different. At the very least it would have been more difficult for you.
I think that validates the argument that the timeout was crucial even more-- He's generally Money on 4th quarter field goals, but in an instance where the offense had to run up and spike it, and he had to rush out there with his kicking team, he missed.. But whatever, it's not like its ever going to change your mind. I don't understand why its so difficult for you to admit it was quite beneficial to have an extra timeout, or even that that clock situation was some real home cooking. It doesn't take away the victory for your team or anything. No, you will argue up and down, against logic, just so you can somehow enjoy your team's victory. That must suck. If the Jets won and were beneficiaries of something like this, I'd be laughing at how quick the clock operator was and smiling that the Jets were able to use that to their advantage. I wouldn't feel the need to be on a Patriots site defending both its legality or downplaying its impact. Things are going to really suck for you when Brady hangs em up....
