You short change the Pats in you list of the potential 2015 line up. Let me add to the list All those who I added in parentheses are signed into 2015 IIRC. There will be a few more like Volmer who are virtually assured to getting extensions this off season. Your hopes and dreams of Tom Brady not being there in 2015 are a lot less than 50-50 IMHO. Does he look like he's slowing down yet.....really? Its not like he can get "less" athletic. :wink: IMHO Ryan Mallett will never be the Pats starting QB. Bottom line: The Pats aren't looking at the empty cupboard you portrayed in your post, plus are on a great drafting roll now and have more than enough cap space to fully participate in FA if needed.
Tannenbaum is a capologist bean counter.. he needs to go back to that and a real GM needs to be installed that knows how to draft, how to pick a scouting department, and how to round out a team in the off-season before its desperation time with the teams most glaring need going into the off-season being completely ignored. re-tooling happens every year by every team. Re-building begins with core building blocks and that starts with the QB, RB and O-line. I know all the Defensive guys will shit on that notion because defense wins championships but the psyche of the O-line and jelling of the O-line is more important then it is on the D-line. We don't have those building blocks so don't classify what's going on as a re-build. What we have here is a patchwork quilt. Replacing old worn out parts with newer serviceable ones. The trouble is the newer serviceable ones aren't Pro-bowl quality and the team spent top draft choices on the wrong positions and they wasted draft choices by packaging them to move up to select average players. The D-line is serviceable, no superstars but they are competent. However... The D-line they have esp in the 3-4 scheme needs to be supported by pro-bowl quality LB's and we don't have any. An argument can be made that the entire LB core needs to go. Players have off-years so I'm not willing to write off Harris yet but the rest must be replaced. The secondary is a team strength now even with Revis out. Rex needs to figure out how to cover the new breed of TE's in this league when replacing the LB's. If he does that then the fact that the starting safety's are more run stoppers then coverage guys is a non-issue. You can't have the likes of Calvin Pace and Bart Scott chasing TE's and giving them up to safety's because there is way too much space to operate as any TE gets separation from our LB's exposing the safety's. Offense is a much bigger issue as its pretty much been ignored under the Rex Ryan Regime. Despite the rhetoric neither D'brick nor Mangold are pro-bowl type players and neither is worth the contract they signed and that hurts the team in filling out a quality roster. Mangold is above average and a solid guy. D'brick appears to me to be on the downside, he's good but not the rock they thought they were getting. The rest of the line is average at best (I'm being generous here). The Jets are stuck with those 2 contracts and they are both starters for the foreseeable future so the focus needs to be immediately on replacing an old Moore, then trying to upgrade an average Slauson and and average Howard. Vlad needs to be shown the door. For RB's Powell and McKnight are very serviceable back ups but they aren't used properly. McKnight needs to be used more in the Leon Washington role and Powell needs to be used as a change of pace back getting entire series to himself. The trouble is its tough to do this when your lead back is a bust. They need to get themselves a top back and dump Greene. I'm probably one of the few that thinks the receiving corp isn't as bad as they're made out to be. In fact I think it has very good depth but it is missing a #2 (or 1 if you prefer as I question Santonio as a #1, he's really a solid #2). Injuries aside the receiving corp is 1 player away imho. TE is puzzling. Keller is a good (not very good) pass-catching TE and so is Cumberland. They aren't top TE's but they fit well in this system. The problem is a true blocking TE doesn't exist on this roster. Blocking TE's come cheaply, much cheaper then a top pass-catching TE so its puzzling why this has been ignored when to me its an easy fix. QB... I don't think the QB of the future is on the roster at this time. If you surround Sanchez with a upgraded team (as I view it per above) he's a good place holder and can allow management to do what it needs to do to get the roster in shape to compete. The question is does management see it this way? If so then I think this can be accomplished in 2-3 yrs. After that it becomes minor retooling and using a top pick on Sanchez's successor. I see that successor as the one to benefit and hopefully lead the team to the SB. I don't see it with Mark at the helm.
i have no idea how this became about the pats...im not blaming you at all...just making an observation. FWIW, I agree with you.
If you look at the rest of the AFC a few years down the line you'll see there is a huge void after the Texans. In the East any of the teams can become "the" team to beat in the division. In the North the Bengals and Browns could turn out to be the strength of the division with the Ravens aging quickly. The Steelers have started to replace age but its unknown what the quality is or will be going forward. Houston will dominate the South for the next decade the way the Pats have in the east. The west is a toss up. Peyton won't be around, Palmer won't be around, Cassel stinks, and Rivers will be near the end of the line. With the right attention to developing a roster now by the Jets there is no reason they can't step up to fill the void in the AFC. I don't see any team preventing that at this time. If they continue to shoot themselves in the foot with poor drafts it will be a huge wasted opportunity and if Woody is smart enough to have this vision of the future then he needs to act now before the opportunity passes.
You are right Turk. The only reference that should be made to the Pats is in reference of how to do it right One of the key factors in any resurgence of the Jets needs to be a better job in developing key players from UDFA's, low draft picks (6th and 7th rounds) and other people's cast offs. I'm not saying great players, but key role players and depth. Just look at the Pats Wendell was a low draft pick who drifted between the PS and bottom of the roster for 3 years before he emerged this season to beat out Dan Koppen who is a pretty good C. Dan Connelly - was a FA pick up from someones PS who spent a few years as a bottom of the roster guy who is now and indespensible part of the OL who can start at 2 positions Kyle Arrington - a former UDFA who rose from the PS to to become a starter in the 2ndary. Not a great player but even when we hope he get replaced by a better player can still play a role Dane Fletcher - another former UDFA who is on the IR, but is a great ILB prospect who won his way into the ILB rotation before getting hurt and a great special teams player Julian Edelman - WR/PR - Never played anthing but QB before being drafted in the 7th round and is now a professional WR and great special team, and not half bad DB. A good guy to have on your roster Steve Gregory - a former UDFA who was a low end FA pick up who has solidified the Pats secondary. (BTW I know its still not good, but it is better) Dennard - Looked great in his first game on the active roster since coming back from injury. A 7th rounder. Kyle love and Brandon Deadrick were UDFA's and 7th rounders respectively. Both have started and Love has solidified himself as a very good run stopping DT, while Deadrick is in the DL rotation. Finally Danny Woodhead and Brandon Boldin are 2 great examples. Woodhead was a Jet reject and I apologize for bringing up a painful subject, while Boldin is another Patriot UDFA success story. Again NONE of these guys are stars, and I've probably forgotten several But the point of this is to show that you need to develop these lunchpail low contract guys to the middle and bottom of your roster. The 5-10 that you make happen make a huge difference not only in your cap but in your depth One of the key reasons the Pats have been able to accomplish their high level of success and overcome the inevitable draft mistakes that every team makes is to develop a relatively large supply of these kinds of players. Mostly I think its a credit to the coaching. They get a lot of guys who aren't players when they get there, but over time develop into ones. Last season I was shocked Wendell was still with team, and never expected him EVER to develop into a starter, let alone the guy who got Dan Koppen cut. For the Jets to become successful in the long term they need to do this much better than they have in recent years.
Team doesn't need to be gutted Keep all our picks this year, draft well, sign LBs with Pace Scott and Eric Smith off the books Revis Cro and Wilson will still be here Ellis Wilkerson Coples will still be here Keep Sanchez, Holmes (unless he can be traded), Hill, Kerley Draft a pass rusher, DRAFT A RUNNING BACK!!! Draft another WR and TE, and we are right back in the thick of things
Wilson wasn't thrown at last game in man to man. I remember two plays where him and Smith blanketed the guy in the middle of their zone. Someone with all 22 should see how Wilson did. I really can't remember him getting beat once all game. All 22 will see if Schaub missed open guys, or Wilson locked it down. The media wouldn't allow a rebuild. The fans wouldn't allow it. This causes the owner/whoever makes the decisions to panic. This leads to shuffling coaches in and out every 3-4 years while trying to win a SB. You can get hot and win one, a la the Giants/Packers. Or you can be a team like the Ravens/Steelers/Patriots that is consistently making the playoffs and give yourself more chances. Both ways work, but both take patience. Eli and Coughlin were supposed to be rushed out of town then they won. Rodgers sat for 2-3 years and they cut ties with Favre at the right time. The Steelers lasted forever with Cowher. The Ravens held steady through a coaching change. The Patriots got lucky finding Brady and winning the first one, then they built themselves up and eventually around Brady to give themselves more chances. Also could you imagine if we were the Falcons lets say. And we had Matt Ryan lighting it up and easily winning regular season games, but he still didn't have a playoff win? The media would destroy him and you would get Ryan to Arod (baseball) comparisons about not being "clutch" and what not. Imagine if Flacco won a playoff game here in NY going 4/10. It's a vicious cycle. The media and fans want to win now. This forces the decision maker to panic and try to win now. This causes the team not to win now. This causes the media and fans to want to win now
He played well last game, he's good enough for a #3, but I dont think Rex should keep putting him on an island all the time Its hard enough to guard the slot, trying it in man coverage all the time is even harder
Made some good points. All the veteran FA's we signed were 1 year contacts and it seems that we would rather play a draft pick who is not ready then sign a FA to help us out this year ( see Hill). In my opinion, the Jets are not rebuilding, Woody is getting cheap, cutting corners because the projected income from the PSL's and UD seats has not been what was projected and I think he finally realizes its not going to change..... see Tebow signing. So in some ways we are both right, but our biggest problem that has not been addressed is the QB position and with the $ we have Sanchez we are stuck with him.
Good thinking in theory. But if continuity includes a GM continuously makes bad decisions, then a change is probably better.
Exactly, he has made poor decisions and it is clear we need a football guy at the GM position that can evaluate talent and actually values draft picks. 21 picks in 4 or so years is just sad. That also means that Bradway has to go, because obviously he hasnt been the best (understatement) at evaluating talent. Aside from Kerley and Wilkerson, theres not much promise in our recent drafts (not really counting this years because its too early, although they havent contributed much at all).
You're a dreamer if you think anybody 31+ is going to be contributing in a big way in 2015. Look at Light and Mankins to see where that reality is. Look at the Pats linebackers who went out en masse causing the last defensive collapse. It just doesn't happen very often that post-30 people are still big contributors. Could Vollmer have made that list? Sure, if I was being unrealistic. You don't see David Harris on the Jets list for the same reason. Revis is there because he is a superstar and the rules are a bit different for players in that class.
Great post, great thread... Agree partly, disagree partly. This is them trying to rebuild some spots on the fly, for sure. It's more of a transition year, and, like you said, the price for 2010. We made a run in 2010, and we didn't make any long-term commitments this offseason for that reason. We'll have a little more flexibility this offseason, and we'll see what we do. I like Rex, I hope he stays around. Get him a quarterback, and I think we'll always have a good enough defense. Though that theory is starting to get some cracks in it this year, but it's gone through a lot of changes on the fly. The problem is Sanchez isn't on schedule to what everyone thought he'd be. Now, I agree it's a myth that he led the Jets to those playoff wins, but not many people believe that I don't think. He played well. He wasn't our best player, but he was a part of us winning those games. He was inexperienced in college, and many said he was a project. I don't want to give up on him this early, but the talent on this team is setting him up to fail. This Tebow move just throws a wrench in everything... I agree more with the "retooling" than the rebuilding, not that it really matters much. You can't have planned rebuilding years, unless you're starting a really young quarterback. Even then, you have to try to win. The Jets are rebuilding the receiver and defensive line spots. Linebacker and running back should be next year. If young players work out as it looks like some probably will, the defensive line should be a big part of this team for a while. The Jets do have a bunch of needs, but there's a decent base. If Revis were still healthy, I'd be arguing how the Jets can still get a playoff spot because you never know. I think if anything happens, Tannenbaum will be reassigned. 5-11 or worse will most likely do that. I don't think he gets fired, and I don't think he's a bad GM, but he's done a bad job the last two years, and if Sanchez is finished, he probably did enough to get himself fired. Too early to tell whether or not he should be. The Jets aren't a great team right now, for sure, but the three losses have been to Pittsburgh, Houston and San Francisco. The latter two may be the best teams in the NFL, and Pittsburgh on the road is not an easy game. I haven't liked the way it looked either, but there's still time to turn it around. There are young players who haven't gotten extended chances that could possibly step up. Will it be enough? Probably not. But it's too early to tell what this year is going to be. I think the Jets wanted to rebuild some areas on the fly, do it a little more next year, and finish it by 2014. Unfortunately, the most indispensible player on the team got hurt, and so did three other players that are really difficult to lose.
I just don't get how you pen in guys like Mallett, McCourty and Arrington and leave out guys like Wilson, Sanchez, even Ducasse, Powell and a couple other young guys. They've all proven about the same in different ways.
Sanchez has played very well in the playoffs. Yes, he has won 4 playoff games, but his 2 losses were even more impressive to me. He threw an 80 yard touchdown in the AFC Championship Game and out-dueled Peyton Manning for a half. Greene got hurt in the 2nd and the Jets could do nothing. Pittsburgh was the opposite, Jets had a bad first half and Sanchez led the team back to 24-19 and the D couldn't get a stop. If they did, I think Sanchez leads them to the win. People forget all of that. You want to say Sanchez did nothing and the defense won all those games, but the truth is the defense LOST both Title games. Not Sanchez.
