That's poor choice of criteria for calculating his fumble %. How about 8 of 584 attempts running and 1 of 46 passing. I don't think he's a great RB, or what we need to be able to win a lot of games, but he does hang on to the ball.
I always love the "look at the one long run play when he was a rookie" argument. Speed was hardly the deciding factor in that run anyway. The guy almost never breaks long runs. Why do people keep bringing up one run from his rookie season? What has he done lately?
That run only goes to the question of speed. Sure I wish there were more examples to chose from, but it can be clearly seen in that run that speed is not the issue here with Greene. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8dtySlji1A
Thank you. Speed is not an issue in THAT play. There was a gaping hole that he just had to run straight through. He broke a nice tackle, yes, which is also something he can not do NOW. I have not seen this guy break any sort of tackle or make a singe guy miss in a long time. I was watching the ATL vs. DEN game last night... Now I think we can all agree that Michael Turner and McGahee arent elite RB's. They probably arent even in the top 10 (AP, McCoy, MJD, Foster, Forte, Rice, Charles, DMC, Mathews, Lynch, Murray, Gore, Richardson). I saw things that I havent seen from a Jets RB in a long time. Michael Turner is an actual POWER back. He breaks tackles. His thighs are massive and never gets brought down on first contact. McGahee is a pretty powerful back himself, but he also can make defenders miss. He had a defender one on one and just gave him a small juke move, made him miss and went for about 10 more yards. If that was Greene, he wouldve ran into him and fell down short of the 1st down. Im done calling Shonn Greene average, because looking at all those backs I named above, he is NOT average. I didnt even name CJ Spiller, Fred Jackson, Chris Johnson, Sproles, Steven Jackson, BJGE, Reggie Bush, Doug Martin, Bradshaw, Jonathan Stewart, Ben Tate... All RB's I would much rather have.
Another huge drawback of Greene is his poor receiving and blocking skills. When the D sees Greene in the backfield his "cover" guy can blitz because they're not worried about him catching it. And there's the added benefit of Greene whiffing on the block. Powell provides the offense more options and takes these keys away from the D.
I knew Greene was shit when watching the Ravens and Bengals game and saying damn I wish the Jets had BJGE BJGE and Powell would be more than enough in my book if we had a healthy Keller and split the ball amongst Holmes/Hill/Kerley/Keller but no we got Shit Greene gaining 2 fucking yards and dropping passes
I wholeheartedly disagree w/ the initial post of this thread. Go back & watch the 2009 Jets & you won't see much difference with the running game from now. It's not pretty & it isn't explosive but it can be very effective. It is a ball control offense. 3 yards & a cloud of dust. You run the ball for 3 yards 2/3 plays(or 6 yards)...you're leaving yourself w/ 3rd & manageable. By the time the 4th Quarter roles around, that front 7 starts to wear down, the running lanes start to open more & you see some longer gains. As we saw week 1...if the passing game can just be respectable, we keep getting 3+ yards a carry & avoid turnovers, this offense can be very productive.
Tanny really dropped the ball on offense this season. We desperately needed a solid RB, o-line help at both guard positions and RT and a veteran WR who we could line up in the vertical game to take pressure off of Holmes. What does he do instead? Acquire Tim Tebow (who has proven to be useless so far in the Wildcat package) and draft a second-round rookie who may or may not be good this year or next. The Jets are going nowhere this year if they can't score, and based on what I saw on Sunday, we have zero capability to put points on the board against a defense that's better than league-average.
Greene is serviceable in a platoon like role. He's just not a feature back, hopefully the coaches realize this and just give Powell and McKnight some more carries.
The running game has been pretty bad.. I think half is on the Oline but at the same time a RB should break off a run once and awhile and I never see that happen with Green...I think Mcknight and Powell should get more touches
I like Greene, Powell and Mcknight but none of them is an every down back yet. Greene to me is a closer, who should be used late in games once defenses are worn out. The fact that he really lacks in the passing game both as a blocker and a receiver really limits him. In today's NFL running backs are expected to do all three things and the only thing he does well is rush and I think most of us agree that he's not a great running back. Powell is the unknown. Of the three RB's he fits the mold of the 2012 nfl running back since he can catch but his poor rookie season scares people. I would love to see more of him. The Jets still do not properly use Mcknight. Unless he's injured the Jets need to find a way to get him the ball 8-10 times a game because he has homerun ability. So the Jets have 3 running backs and as of now I don't think any of them would start for another team. Maybe if all three are used correctly they become a weapon but running Greene 30 times a game isn't scaring anyone. Another issue compounding the problem is that the offensive line is not exactly a great blocking line. Brick is adequate as a run blocker but he's more of a technician then lining up and moving people off the ball. Slauson is an average LG and the fact that the Jets are already getting Vlad in there problems means that his run blocking is lacking. It also hurts to not have a true two way tight end who can be a threat in the passing game and also hold his own run blocking. This at least keeps teams honest. The biggest issue that has made it so hard for the Jets to run the ball is the fact that teams still don't respect the Jets passing game down the field. It's a big advantage when the defense is playing 2 deep safeties and your line is blocking 7-7. Hopefully Sparano will continue to put pressure on teams down the field so that they have more room to run. I'm hoping that the combination of more touches for Powell/Mcknight and more deep passes will see a better running game going forward.
So you dont think that Greene is reason for concern on offense? He's not even mediocre at this point... He leaves a lot of yards on the field. The run blocking is decent and gives him holes but how many times have we seen him run into the back of an OLman? or stumble for 2 yards? On a run first team, a ground and pound team, 3 ypc is pretty bad. At this point, I dont see them bringing in anybody else into the backfield (although its something they should've done months ago), so why treat Greene like something he's not, a workhorse? Feed the hot hand, and distribute the ball. Everybody didnt want a vet RB to be added like Benson because we wanted to see the young guys develop... well nows there time. Powell has shown more than Greene at this point and brings more explosion and balance to the run game. McKnight is one of the few playmakers we have on this team and should be used more... If he could hang onto the ball, he could be a real weapon. Point is, Greene is being used in a manor that doesnt allow him to be the best he can be. He's best when he's sharing the ball with someone, and then late in the game like you said, he becomes better and starts to actually do a little damage. Maybe the thread should have been named "Run game concerns continue" because yes it is concerning that we dont have a true #1 back.
I don't think Greene is a great all around back. He's pedestrian in alot of aspects. But where you & i differ is that you want the Jets to be more explosive within the running game with more long runs & big plays. And sure we all want that. But Rex keeps talking up "Complimentary football". What he means by that is when you build your team around an elite defense, you normally want to compliment that style of play with a ball control offense. What that means is sustaining drives, wearing down the defense with inside runs & avoiding turnovers. Yes you take your shots when they present themself but above all else, you methodically drive down the field & avoid turnovers. Now defenses know the inside run is coming. So they are gonna load up the box & keep special attention to their gaps. What you end up w/ is alot of 2-4 yard carries. What you hope is 3 things happen. 1. As the game goes on & the carries add up, that defense starts to wear down from collisions w/ our big O-line & having to tackle a 230 pounder like Greene. By the late 3rd qtr, those 3 yard runs become 6 or 8 yard runs..and by the 4th qtr you get even bigger gains 2. With all the concentration on proper gap assignment & the back 7 playing w/ a "DOWNHILL" run first mentality, that the passing lanes open up which allow our fast WR's to get downfield & make big plays. This is what failed to materialize in the last game. Sanchez/WR's let the press coverage affect their timing & they had no answer 3. As the weeks go on...the OL/ RB's get into more of a rythym which will result in larger gains. Seems like every year the running game for this team starts off slow..but by the time October rolls around it picks up. So my overall point is not to say that Greene is an elite player or that the running game, can't get better. What I'm saying is, you can WIN with this type of running game assuming that Sanchez/passing game do their part. We saw t5hat very notion in week 1..and we saw the opposite in week 2.
The key to our running offense is to put Sanchez in 3rd and short situations he can convert. Run twice, pick up 7 yards, convert on 3rd and 3. Rinse, repeat. I don't think our offensive line or running back stable is as good as it was in 2009 where we would clearly wear teams down late. I think that's pretty obvious. That said, I'd like to see Powell split carries more with Greene. When Greene was at his best, it was when he was fresh and splitting time with Jones. I still think Greene can be effective with that, but it's hard to wear down a defense when the running back is also wearing down. Don't understand why Powell doesn't get more time at least as a compliment. I'm not saying give Powell 25 carries, but if Shonn is getting 25 and Bilal is getting 5, why not make it 15 and 15 or 18 and 12? Keeps both fresher.
Why don't we just split carries with Greene and Powell? Powell is more elusive and explosive, Greene is a little more of a power back. I don't see how Greene running the ball 90% of the time benefits this team.
I share the same concerns about Greene only making 3 yard runs. But like others have said, that can be effective if he's splitting the load. I was screaming for Lamar Miller to be taken in the 3rd round as a change of pace back. That didn't happen and Powell has improved through the off season, so why not give him more touches? First post!
