Again you're not addressing the point of the post: 2005 Steelers ranked 9th in points, 5th in rushing and their very protected young Qb had a 98.6 rating. 2007 Giants were just like last year's bunch, a group of over-achievers who got on a roll. They ranked 17th in points allowed that year. 2002 Bucs were noted as being not a great defense but an all-time great defense. 2001 Ravens were maybe THE great all-time defense. I know you want to argue, but stick to the point of the post you are arguing with. That way the author of the post does not have to come back and rebut you several times based on your inaccurate triangulation of the original post.
True, but offensive turnovers played a big role in that. Those stats are actually poorly documented because they include pick 6 and fumble 6s as going against the defense. Take those away and our D is right where it should be. Definitely not mediocre. It had a few holes, we had some trouble against the run (our biggest dropoff), and were weak a safety and susceptible to big plays on 3rd down. Yards allowed is a far better indicator of defense, than points per game.
He would have to have data with Revis off the field to do what you asked and as of 2009 he did not have that. We now have data points with Revis off the field, 2010 injury cluster + end of season against Bills. Here's how the Jets did in those 3 and a half games: Pats 2nd Half - Brady 7-16, 116, 2 Int's. Dolphins - Henne 26-45, 363, 2 TD's, 1 Int. Bills - Fitzpatrick - 12-27, 128, 2 TD's, 0 Int. Bills - Assorted - 12-26, 130, 0 TD's, 4 Int. Ok, so it's not a perfect mix because the last game was garbage time but in the 14 quarters that Revis missed the Jets defense gave up 57 completions in 114 attempts (50%), 737 yards (6.5 YPA), 4 TD's and 7 Int's. Not exactly falling down there. the Jets pass defense is great because we have Rex, not because we have Revis. If Rex goes away so does the great pass defense, if Revis goes away the effect will be meh in my opinion.
Although Eric Smith can't cover to save his life, that's not quite fair. The loss of Bryan Thomas and Jim Leonhard hurt a lot, plus aside from a somewhat effective Maybin, we really had no pressure coming from the 4 man rush. The lack of coverage meant the Jets had to stray from man coverage and resort to zone a lot, which i not their strong suit. Bend but don't break. That's a few of the reasons why the defense suffered.
I know your feeling about Revis' value. My point was not that Joyner was necessarily wrong, just that he didn't have the data to back up his assertions at the time. The fact that the defense did pretty well for 3 games after he wrote his article does not mean that his argument was weak at the time. I am not trying to turn this into an argument about whether he was right or wrong, just saying that he makes conclusions that are not the only ones that can be drawn from the data he provides.
Additionally, if he couldn't demonstrate Revis' lack of value by comparing Revis on and off the field (because he didn't have the data). He could have at least tried to bolster his argument that it is Rex's scheme that is really what's important, by giving stats when Rex used various exotic alignments. Like data from when he overload blitzed 6 with a cornerback rushing, etc. That was the least he could have done at the time.
All he really had to do was show the difference between Mangini's record on defense and Rex's record on defense. The personnel did change up the center of the field, with Scott and Leonhard brought in, but the difference between Mangini's 3-4 and Rex's was like night and day. Darrelle Revis is an amazing cornerback. He's much more amazing now in the prime of his career and in Rex Ryan's defense than he was early on in Mangini's. He was much more amazing in 2009 than he has been since. That's just what it is. If Rex goes back to heavy pressure and blitzing and leaves Revis on the #1's the odds are excellent that he'll have another amazing season this year - while the Jets go 9-7 again.
The most significant defense between Rex and Mangini's defense is that Mangini's defense played a bland zone and couldn't stop a 90 year old woman on only one leg from running the ball. Rex placed a major emphasis on Nose Tackle that Mangini never did and it has paid off.
Mangini got the only full season out of Kris Jenkins. The Jets finished somewhere between 22nd and 29th against the pass that year depending on what you consider to be the key stats (YPA, QB Rat or Yards Allowed). They finished somewhere between 7th and 7th against the run depending on whether you see YPA or Yards Allowed as most important. Darrelle Revis sat on the edge of a bottom third passing defense with Kris Jenkins supplying real pressure right up the middle.
Jenkins was awesome... really wish he didn't have those injuries... Mangini's defense ran the awful zone coverage scheme. Revis was not a direct cause for the pass defense poor year that year.
Just saying that Darrelle Revis doesn't even guarantee the Jets having a good pass defense. The Broncos had somewhere between the 18th and 28th ranked pass defense last year with Champ Bailey at CB. They were 25th to 30th in 2010. They were great in 2009. They were 26th to 31st in 2008. Great CB's don't make pass defenses great. Great coaches do.
While I agree with your premise, I also think that great coaches WITH great CBs can make amazing things happen... the fact that the Jets finished 5th in yards allowed last year is a miracle. Revis isn't the cause of that but Rex being able to utilize his system to account for Revis is a large reason WHY it is that way. Rex's premise is that cornerbacks are the 2nd most important position behind QB because bad CB play is the fastest way to lose a game (Cromartie / Wilson proved that when they whiffed on Victor Cruz last year).
Well Rex's scheme is based around the fact that he has such a great corner. Why do you think Rex places so much emphasis on having them? I think Rex would be successful even if he didn't have Revis, but they would need to change the scheme considerably. Also, they have built up the talent in other areas, such as the D-line & hopefully safeties, which would mitigate the impact losing Revis would have. However, at the time, against the offenses from 2009, that scheme was beautiful, until they ran into a QB that was good enough to exploit the 3rd cornerback, and even then, the D was dominant against him for almost 1 half. The slot corner was a deficiency in the D, because against a great QB and good slot receiver it is harder to roll coverage to help him. They drafted Kyle Wilson to be a solution (whether or not this actually has worked out). Also, the Jets went 9-7 that year because of the offense, the defense was lights out, #1 in the league by about 30 yards. I'd take those stats any day. I agree that offenses have changed since then, so that exact style may not be as effective with the emergence of the tight end. The counter to that seems to be to have the big nickel 3rd safety or coverage linebacker. My point is still that Joyner makes a lot of flawed arguments, whether or not his hypotheses get validation in the future.
don't confuse team pts scored w/ offensive pts scored and again the Giants D played GREAT in carrying them to 2 SBs. I don't care what their reg season ranking was, that is as meaningless as can get. Absolutely, if they had an avberage # of O pts allowed they are probably in the 15 range- still mediocre and the D killed us on numerous occasions throughout the year.
