Tebow has been a run-first QB for the past two years, because he isn't great at reading pass coverage and holds the ball too long. His scrambles, as you've said, are often due to the fact that once he fails to step up into the pocket. And once he starts scrambling, he knows that if it comes to getting 6yds or less, there's a good chance he can do it with his legs.
Others that I have disagreed with on this have spelled out what a "run first" QB is, that being, a guy who tucks the ball and heads down field when under pressure, as opposed to trying to escape pressure and find someone to throw to. As demonstrated by the examples, Tebow often scrambles and tries to find open receivers to throw the ball to. If you watched, you could see him trying to direct receivers where to run. In one of the "Sound FX games", he's excited about a play that was just made and hollers to DT "Scramble drill baby". So I disagree with the characterization that he's "run first" and unlike others, I have actually proved both evidence and supportable arguments to back up my position. I mean, do I need to post the videos of him scrambling and buying time to find open receivers ? He runs either when there's a ton of pressure and he can't scramble and buy the time, or when he doesn't see any open receivers but he does see daylight.
That your arguments are supportable doesn't mean they're correct. Watch the video where Jaws breaks him down. Frequently, he's buying time to find open receivers because he didn't recognize the correct read in the first place. He's great at reading fronts when it comes to running. He's not so good at understanding hot reads or progressions, so what looks a great scramble drill is often something that could've been avoided if he'd just recognized the coverage in the first place.
I agree with what you just said, but that actually wasn't what we were talking about. In that Video, Tebow scrambles, buys time and finds an open receiver (Thomas), as opposed to taking off running down field. You know, being "run first". If you want to talk about how he missed seeing an open receiver or that he saw him and just didn't pull the trigger, and that led to him having to scramble, I agree. We could talk about any number of other problems that he has as well, but again, those are different points. We were specifically discussing whether Tebow was a "run first" QB or if he scrambled and tried to find receivers down field.
Again, no one is arguing you can't run spread option, read option, triple option, or wildcat plays within your offense in the NFL. The Jets have been using these type of looks for years now. When your QB is Newton or Vick its even more deadly bc you can go to that look at any time without the defense having a clue. The point is that you cannot run them as your base offense, and Cam And Vick are in a different class from Tebow as passers (although somehow I'm sure you don't believe it). The funniest part of this thread is that the guy who starts the thread admits "I don't really know Xs and O's and I can't tell the difference between college and NFL"....smh.
And one last thing before I go away for a while and enjoy your misery in seeing your cult hero play on special teams: By the end of his career, Vince Young was the University of Texas highest rated passer of all time at over 60% completions.
I started the thread. You are mischaracterizing what I said. What I am saying is that though I understand the plays and differences, I am not at the level of sophistication of even a high-school coach in respect to Xs an Os. I can tell that there are differences between systems, but I cannot for the life of me see the "extreme" difference (on defense) that people refer to. Keep in mind the scope of what I was referring to was the tenet of lightning fast NFL defenses destroying any mobile QB. To my eyes, the defense is essentially the same, with more gifted and seasoned athletes. But then again, you have more gifted and seasoned offensive players, so it evens out. I won't pretend to have Bil Belichicks' coaching mind. No need for me to puff up my chest on the internet. EDIT: When I say I don't know the X's and O's, I am not saying that I don't know all the different formations on defense and offense. I know these. My lack of understanding comes in when you start talking about exactly how these defenses affect each player on the field, which offense plays (exactly) will beat what defense, and the intricate ways in which coaches employ their offense/defense. I have good general knowledge, but do not have the specifics nailed down.
On my phone so short and sweet: so basically one play from Miami makes my whole opinion wrong? Sure. He does this run first. That's why he doesn't go through all his read last year. When watching him last year I saw quick read, take off, oh wait this guy is open or one read and I'm booking it. It seemed most (notice I don't ever say all) of the time his movement was to run initially. What does the jets game have to do with anything? I never said running first was bad. I clearly stated that in one of the posts you quoted. This is te second time on me you make up an argument that I'm not arguing. Did I ever say running is bad and touchdowns ate bad? No I said I don't see Te benefits outweighing the risk of going to full time spread/option/running QB offense in the day and age where every rule favors pocket passers.
Backup QB: the point stands. You do not know ish about NFL defenses if you think they are the same as college defenses. The complexity and sheer size of the playbook makes it not comparable. Please read more and post less.
I posted this link ( http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...ebow-prove-spread-option-will-work-in-the-nfl ) in response to Backup QB's desire to brain storm the idea of pocket passing in the NFL. I also posted the actual article and stipulated there were videos at the linked site that reinforces the idea that 'pocket passing' is simple one of many strategies used in pro football. I know the article takes more than 2 sentences to make points but I think if you can absorb more than 2 sentences of information and will read that long article then you may have better contributions to this thread.
I didn't read all the following posts but OP's point clearly confuses causation and correlation. More bad stats work by Tebow fans.
If it was just one play in the Miami game, perhaps you would have a point. I do believe I also mentioned plays in the Bears game, the Vikings game, and against Pitt as well. I'm sure that if I actually went through each game, I could provide even more examples. What this does is DISPROVE THE NOTION that Tebow is a "run first" QB. Again, "run first" being defined as "taking off down field when under pressure" as opposed to "Scrambling when pressured and trying to locate receivers down field".
Holy shit!!!!! How many different ways and different times can you suck on the same dry chicken bone?! First it was "Tebow is special, gotta start him", then "Look at his [carefully selected] stats, he's better than Sanchez", "Sanchez will fail, Tebow will rule", "The media says Tebow will start".... This whole thread essentially boils down to "Tebow can't shine in current Jets system, so why don't we change the system?" When are you people going to accept that barring an injury TT will NOT be starting QB of the New York Jets?!
You're getting all worked up about 2 or 3 people, because that's the number of people on this forum who've said something other than the above.
Don't confuse people defending Tebow as a QB as people thinking he should start over Sanchez... Those are two entirely different arguments. The first of which I've argued vehemently, the second of which you won't see but one or two crazies arguing.
That article is an opinion piece, that speaks in general terms about "the spread", and mostly focuses on how you can incorporate the read option in Cam Netwons offense. It says nothing about using the Urban Meyer offense as a base offense in the NFL. But since we like to reference vague opinion pieces, here are some discussing how the wildcat is going to take over the NFL....they are from 2008-2009. In case you haven't noticed, the Jets are the only team who bother running it now, when it was supposed to be "the new wave of NFL offense". http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=4302360 LOL....four years later and it's basically dead. Also note Jeff Fishers wise comments on how fads and gimmicks from college NEVER last.
http://smartfootball.com/wildcat/nfl-coaches-still-fussing-about-the-wildcat Note the common thread about impending badass Pat White.....lmfao.
