Look, here's the thing. Bowe is a good WR I'm not disputing this, my point I was trying to make is that he not going to be worth what we have to give for him and even if we were to get either him or Harvin (which both are going to be a HUGE investment) who is going to get them the ball? Is it really worth getting an upper echelon WR when our QB situation is in such disarray. (and by disarray I mean if we had Calvin Johnson I don't think it would be enough to help Sanchez)
:lol: Yeah, sure. Let's just pretend that we know the future and that Sanchez will not improve this year like he did every other year here. Let's pretend that Sanchez couldn't get Edwards, Holmes or Cotchery the ball in 09 / 10. That is the worst attitude. "Yeah, our QB sucks, why bother getting him tools to help improve". I'm just glad our front office doesn't get advice from fans.
That is an incredibly dumb thing to say. Calvin Johnson was making back up QBs look good when Stafford was injured. I think he had a 3TD day with a backup there.
Glad everybody picked up on the sarcsam.. Yes I was being facetious about Calvin, but not about the other guys. I think it would be an extreme waste of resources (picks) to put a band-aid on your problem. A good QB should elevate the play of the players around him, most of all his recievers.
*FIXED* Yes and QBs never need to develop. They play their first couple years and have instant success. If not they never breakout and are complete busts. There no reason to assume doom and gloom. Do you realize how difficult it is to get an elite QB today? Only 5 or so teams have them. You act like its easy and that Sanchez won't keep improving for some odd reason. You tell me. Did CJ make Stafford better or did Stafford make CJ better last year? The answer is obvious.
I dont think its very likely but if we could get Harvin he would absolutely be worth a 1st maybe even more ( add on a 5th or 6th), Before you flame or dismiss me I've put alot of thought into it and these are my reasons. 1. Wr improvement, he would improve our wr ranks, by grabbing any top top tier wr like harvin you improve who you have as your number one, but also the quality of your #2 #3 receivers. Santonio Holmes would get the oppositions 2nd best cb and hill would get their 3rd. so by bringing in a top wr you improve all the wr spots basically getting an upgrade on 2 or 3 roster spots just with his wr play. If you think this is crazy when the vikes got Moss, Harvin's numbers spiked because Moss occupied their number one and often double coverage. 2. Rb help. Harvin averaged 6.7 yard per carry taking snaps as rb last yr when AP was out, compared to Greenes 4.2 ypc. I know ur first response is going to be but the jets oline sucks and u cant compare that. AP averaged 4.7 ypc with the vikes that same yr. im not saying harvin is better then AP, Ap is a beast just that harvin is productive in that position and that should be taken into account when evaluating how useful he would be for the team, especially since we plan to be ground and pound. 3. Wildcat, The jets plan to use the wildcat extensively this season and Harvin has tons of experience with option plays being from florida. The option to go from bull dosing with Tebow or lighting pace with harvin got florida pretty far. side note harvin was a high school qb and can throw the ball a tiny bit having ur wild cat qb being able to run or pass and ur widecat rb being able to run or pass might be a bit fun. Only use this maybe as a trick play once or twice a season. 4. Kick return, Harvin is a probowl kick returner and would improve that 5. Not THAT fragile. Harvin has a missed a total of 3 games over his 3 seasons that is really exaggerated. 6. not all first picks workout, who ever we get might be worse then harvin or could be better. We get a wr and top tier play maker coming into his prime FOR SURE for the pick we give up. In summary for one first round pick We improve at the wide receiver spots, at the RB spot, at Kick returner, at an offensive package that we are going to use alot this yr and this is a player that you know is going to be successful and high tier in the nfl. If you are still skeptical of the value do u think the vikes would let him go for a 1st unless he gets in some kind of drama ala ocho cinco, brandon marshall?
He's a bargain for a #1 CB. He's no longer a bargain when he's your number 2 and you're already paying Revis an average of 11ish m. That's nearly 1/6 of the cap spent on 2 players in your secondary.
Next year he is 7 million and the year after he is 4.3 million. He is a movable piece if we decide to trade him and have KW take over #2. If not we won't be paying him as much going forward. This season's roster is pretty much set in stone barring a trade but I don't think one is coming.
this guy gets it... make no mistake if a trade is going down that requires cap clearance now and in future years Cromartie is the guy to go.
Heh. Flacco was doing bad after 3 years. You know what BAL did, they got him Boldin and watched him and Boldin light it up. They also drafted a WR for him in Torrey Smith. Matt Ryan looked fine with Roddy White back there, you know what ATL did, they traded up Julio Jones. Brady is an Elite QB, you know what they did, acquired Lloyd. Jay Cutler might have hit his peak and not get better, they traded for Brandon Marshall. You don't back on the fact your QB is going to be elite or terrible so don't get him weapons. You get your QB weapons so he can flourish (2010 Sanchez). If you don't have an elite QB, you need other skill players and units to step up. That would be the RB, WR, and defense/special teams. Units that stepped up HUGE for Brady, Big Ben, Eli, and Peyton in their first super bowl wins where none of them played lights out, let alone elite.
Yes to Percy Harvin coming to the Jets. Percy Harvin would fit well in the wildcat scheme, be a young versatile wr threat for Sanchez, take pressure off of the running game as a serviceable option to receive handoffs from whoever in whatever role. Sans his migraine issues which have been an issue, this guy is potentially gold. I would be psyched it the Jets brought him here.
You said elite, not me. My ranking is like this: 1. elite, 2. good, 3. average, 4. backup grade And yes, a good QB can raise up players around them. I also think that players need to develop and I don't think Sanchez has peaked yet but statisticly speaking the guy just isn't good. To your point, I see what you're saying about helping out your QB by surrounding him with talent and I completely agree. But first of all the QB's you mentioned except for Flaco are way better than Sanchez. Before we invest anymore into a "band-aid" for Sanchez's inabilities we need to sure up the O-line first and foremost. Then after that we need to evaluate if investing in an expensive top notch WR is the answer, or if the real problem lies at the QB position. I think this year will tell the tale on that.
Again. LOLwut? Bowe had, and this is an allstar list here, Damon Huard, Brodie Croyle, Tyler Thigpen, and Matt Cassel throwing to him. If you don't think Sanchez is better than them, you have a career backup QB currently starting for the NY Jets. And again you show your ignorance.
Elite QBs (top 5)make everyone around them better. Good QBs (top 6-10), not so much. It's not that they can't, or don't ever, they just need help and a good supporting cast. Elite QBs can turn lead into gold. Your opinion that getting a new WR is pointless because Sanchez sucks, is a terrible one. How could it possibly hurt to give Sanchez a better receiving cast? I'm not saying he needs it, but to discount Sanchez when he had a career year in the red zone last year and has improved every year here is preposterous. The kid could be the real deal this year. He was playing above average the first half of last year. He wasn't the same since he got hurt in the Broncos game. I say Sanchez is good because of the stats in my signature and shows that he has a high ceiling
Barcs, I love how you misconstrue my words and twist them to help your point instead of actually coming up with a rebuttal that pertains to the topic at hand. But here, let me help you. What I really said: I already answered this one for you: Ok so I never discredited him, not sure where you got that. Secondly he did not improve last year, this isn't opinion based, it is a fact. Here's some stats for you: In 2011 Sanchez had - 26 turnovers (2nd in the NFL) 6.5 yards PPA "per pass attemp" to WR's (32nd in the NFL) 7.8 yards in the air per attempt (25th in the NFL) There's more but I'll stop there. Give everyone the whole truth and put those numbers on your signature before you go around calling a guy good. For the record I do agree, Sanchez has a high ceiling, but he also has a low basement.
Do I think Harvin gets traded before or during this season, no. Do I think he would be a great fit here in NY, yes. Do I think Mark's lack of consistency is becasue he has had reciever turnover/turmoil his first 3 years (now a 4th), with out a doubt. Like any Great or even good QB, consistency with a reciving corps is more than half of the equation. I hope JK, Hill, Turner, Holmes stabilize with Mark for the next few years. That said, this reciving corps is very underwelming...
Going out on a limb, there's no other position in sports that have as many factors involved in determining the success as QB. You really do need everything to align together to reach that elite level. From the system, to the offensive line, to the backs and receivers, even to the field position the defense and special teams are putting you in, it's impossible to pin point any one area that will make you and any one of those breaking down can break you. In Sanchez' case, there have been flashes of well above average play. The new system seems like it will play to his strengths. The offensive line is at what it is at this point. Getting a guy like Harvin can only help and with how good I think the defense is going to be this year, if the offense is slightly above average this will be a very good team. If the cost was say a 2nd and a 4th rounder for Harvin, as much as I hate constantly trading picks, I pull the trigger.
Harvin makes QBs look good. Of course, if I had my way, Harvin, Rainey, and Demps would be Jets. Aaron Hernandez too.
