That's way too generous on your part. Mangini was hell-bent on keeping his 3-4 system regardless of the players at hand - THAT is also a part you need to look at. If you recall, Dslob was gone after 2007 season. Also offloaded was Jonathan Vilma during the February of 2007. If Mangini wasn't trying to hammer the square pieces into round hole, there WAS something that could have been done; i.e. Jets could elect to pick up undertackle (Sedrick Ellis, drafted 7th). Sure, it's not a sexy pick but over a character-concern (and eventually, a full-blown bust) that's always a winner. (AND you get very productive Vilma back in return as well; Harris will have to change his role to Sam, but that can be done.) It was Mangini's inflexibility that was in action as well. He does not put the players in place to succeed; he needs players that can execute his command, even though they might not be the most athletically gifted. So... in retrospect, just why Woody even bother picking Mangini in the first place? Yes. It goes back to Woody - his lack of clue, and Jets lacking true identity.
Nothing that hasn't already been stated but for me it would be lack of HOF calibre QB during their prime years.
Its not my place to tell Jet fans what's wrong with THEIR franchise. Instead I'll tell you what's right about the Patriots franchise because the Pats and Jets had a pretty similar prior to Kraft buying them in 93 with just 2 or 3 good years every decade amid 7 or 8 years of ineptitude. What turned it around was simply Bob Kraft. Some people forget that Kraft had successfully turned around the franchise BEFORE Bellichick and Brady had come on the scene. Kraft has owned the Pats since the 1993 season, Since that time Kraft has experienced only THREE losing seasons, and 2 of those came in his first 3 years as an owner. He made his share of mistakes. His fight with Parcells was not all his fault, but he didn't handle it well. He signed a LOT of excessive contracts after the Pats made it to the superbowl that crippled the club in the late 90's and limited its success, culminating in the 5-11 2000 season. But he learned from those mistakes and has built an organization and climate that fosters success and accountability. I think the 2nd reason for success is continuity. Not just in the fact BB has been there for the last 13 years, but in the development of a true Patriot Way. Its not that the Patriot Way is the best way, but its an established blueprint for this organization. That kind of identity helps players know what to expect and where they stand from the moment they get to Foxboro. Its DEFINITELY not for everyone, but for those who chose to go, they won't be surprised by what they find when they get there They all seem to speak with one voice and one goal. And its not just to win a superbowl. Its simpler than that. Its to win the NEXT game. Do that enough times and your team will get a chance to be in that game. There are lots of pitfalls to winning a superbowl. You not only have to be good, but you have to be lucky. The Pats had breaks winning three and were unlucky, or in other words the OTHER team got the breaks, losing 3 in recent years. All a good organization can do is to be consistent in getting their team to playoffs year to year. Do that, enough times and you will get a fair share of championships So what the Jets need to do most is create an environment where the organization speaks with one voice. Everyone accepts being accountable for doing "their jobs", and all those "jobs" are clearly defined and understood by the people performing them regardless of where they are within the organization. When people think of the "Jets Way" it has to be unified and recognizable to everyone in the organization If you are going to have that with the Jets the HC can't be "clueless" about his locker room. You can't have players "speaking their own minds" (no matter how entertaining it is), and you need to be lucky enough to have enough wins that The Jets Way is accepted by players who are making enough money so fast they can afford to be independent if they choose. Sounds pretty simple, yet so few organizations can make it work over a long period of time. You would think that it would be as simple as taking the Pats "blueprint" or the Steelers, or the old Niners, or any of several teams who have done it over a long time and follow it. There is certainly more than one way to do it. Just what ARE those consistent features that you find in organizations like the Pats and Steelers that make them so consistently good. I wish I knew. If I did, I would write a book and make millions.
1. Good job beating the dead horse. I already mentioned Bob Kraft factor. 2. That said, Patriots Way = Cheating 3. What makes an organization successful? Clear understanding of organizational philosophy and identity - if you keep brewing these for years, then it becomes TRADITION.
The only thing that has made the Pats successful as a franchise is Tom Brady - and he was the luckiest draft pick of all time - take him out of the equation and the Pats are just A.N.Other team.
I think writing a book is an excellent idea. I recommend you focus all your energy exclusively on that effort.
The Pats were just a dismal franchise in the past. i actually remember rooting for them in the Super Bowl in 85 and 96. They had some likeable teams, but were such underdogs. Of course, i'd never root for them again. They are now up there with my hatred for the Fish. Parcells really got them on the map, and built the foundation for a team, which Belichick really flourished. Having a successful QB is a must, but i truly believe Belichick is the major reason for their consistent continued success. He has established a philosophy and identity which the team has bought into from top to bottom. That backing and consistency does contribute to success. Once BB leaves, i expect a return to the basement. Kraft will intervene too much, and they will go the route of Jerry Jones and Al Davis chasing past glory.
First of all..Throw the Niners out. They missed the boat. Throw the Pats out, it's too early to tell, as their only real success has come under Beli, who is a unique talent. The real case study here is the Steelers. Their teams have fielded the same types of players, over decades. They took the original formula, and institutionalized it. Hiring coaches that agreed with it, (Rather than switching out 'systems' repeatedly. Where Beli has missed, is in relying on his own special genius...First he used his defensive knowledge, then adapted strictly to the small ball offensive mindset that currently pervades the NFL. The 5 yard rule, kills defenses. If Pittsburgh adopted the small ball offense, they'd probably be unstoppable, until every other team did. The ridiculous 4 second pass plays under Schittenheimer has killed the Jets for 6 years. We'll see what Sparano brings. If Sparano, goes to an effective short to intermediate passing game, with the Defense the Jets can field. Good things will happen. The Second step, in response to your reply, would be to institutionalize both playbooks. You always see the phrase in the media, 'coach x's playbook' it should be Coach X was brought in because he understands the nuances of our playbook. And the tweaks should be as a result of the coach and rule changes.
I think that people look at the 1 superbowl and oversimplify. Its really about the Jets have knocked on the door, but haven't broken through (and they have all been different). If you really look at the postseason history of the Jets and Giants the difference isn't so much the amount of times one team has gone to the playoffs or gotten past the first round. The difference is that the Giants are 5-0 and the Jets are 0-4. Its tough to pinpoint one thing that is the reason for the 0-4 IMO. It felt like it was always something different. I do think you have to separate the Jets history between Leon Hess and Woody Johnson. Woody is by far a better owner. This team has gone to the playoffs 6 times in 12 years and two AFC championship games. Hess had such bad stretches that Woody hasn't had. On the Gholston issue, in a weird way I think it was a GOOD pick. You hear me a GOOD pick relative to lets say Jerod Mayo. Here's why: If the Jets had picked Mayo, would they have won another game in 2008. I say yes and the Jets are 10-6. At 10-6 I don't think Mangini gets fired which means no Rex, Sanchez, or Braylon. That collapse in 2008 was one of the best things to happen to this franchise because it set the stage for the Rex Ryan era who has been the best head coach this team has with all due respect to Weeb Eubank. I can see the arguments about picking Sedrick Ellis or Leodis Mckelvin, but I'm not convinced that they would have changed anything from 2008 up until the present.
Well its such an important factor that its worth repeating I know that you know its not really true. Its like an aspirin for the headache of being a Jet fan. If it makes you feel better, I understand :wink: Correct. I think Jet fans would be better off figuring out what's right about good franchises rather than what's wrong about their's.
After I wrote that line, I KNEW this would be your response Dierk. Thanks for being both predictable and mildly amusing. :wink:
As the years pass, I see it's easier for Pasts fans to deny that their team was penalized as proven cheaters in the annuls of NFL history. Proven... without a doubt.
Bullshit. The Pats were only penalized that much since Godell interned for the Jets in like the 70s. Same reason why they always have cap space. Fucking guy keeps letting them pulling off that ponzi scheme!
I think Hobbes mentioned it, but right now the model team is not the Niners or Pats, it is the Steelers. Since 1979, last time the Steelers won a SB and went on a "drought", they had 7 losing season. That's incredible and it goes over the span of one player obviously. Right now the Patriots and back then the 49ers streak of success has been predicated on having an elite QB. This is meant not to disregard your team's accomplishments, just that they have a little ways to go to see if they continue this once a coach and a player move on. The main thing the team needs to have is patience with its players and coaches. The Patriots did get lucky because the had instant success with their new QB and newer coach. It buys them more time in the end. But I would bet Kraft wouldn't have bailed on Bledsoe and Belichick very quickly even if Brady didn't happen. There is patience and timing. The Jets have not been patient recently and have had bad timing. Their "bust" come at a time when they need one starter who could push them over the edge. The patience is hard to have in NY. You see all NY sports team affected by the media driving the impatience. This is not to blame the media, but NY media has a mentality of win now. I think part of it comes along because you are always trying to outdo the "other" team and one team is always going to be regarded better than the "other" team. This differs slightly from other cities. I am NOT using the media as an excuse, but I do think it might have influenced decisions made the organization. The best thing for the Jets to do right now is not think of this as a make or break season for Sanchez and to keep Rex for another 2 years least barring criminal or illegal activity. The goal as Patfan said is to consistently win games. The Jets might be swinging into that with Rex or they might slowly go on a downfall. BUT I believe it helps if you can have a coach upsee the whole downfall and upswing. Switching coaches every few years leads to good players being ineffective in the new system. So even if the Jets struggle the next 2 years (most likely due to Sanchez/injuries), I would let Rex stay to oversee the team and give him a chance (Again unless he singe handedly ruined the seasons as opposing fans think he will). Not criticizing your post Ken, just trying to build my thoughts off what you said
You must mean that glorious 1983 season when Roger Goodell, a one-year intern, much like our masonite forefathers, was baptized into a Super Secret society bent on league domination, only to serve one purpose... in this case, to make the New York Jets the most stories franchise in existence.
Yes, but... Give me your solution for having the 6 pick in the 2008 draft needing a pass rusher as the primary need on the team? You don't draft for need if you're smart but you also don't look away from it if the draft slots your need in your slot. I don't see a choice the Jets had in 2008 other than to take Gholston. What would your choice have been? Don't say trade because the Jets explored that angle pretty heavily and had no takers for the pick.
