Sigh. As I have said before, I really doubt whether the Jets will ever win an SB as long as Woody Born Into It Johnson is the owner. It seems to me that he doesn't think the OL is high profile enough or something to be paid attention to. Is it just Tanny who doesn't get this? I doubt it. Your list of course leaves out the two first round picks on Ferguson and Mangold, and signing both Woody and Moore, but your point remains correct - at critical moments, the Jets mishandle their OL, usually with rather obvious cases of wishful thinking breaking up the more general approach of willful ignorance. The Adrien Clarke/Anthony Bender approach is one that has eery parallels to today. Fill a need with two people who are so mediocre that they don't come close to adding up to one. That's basically what we have with Hunter and VD. The talk of Slauson playing some RT is one of two things - a desparate move word of which came out after doubt was expressed about Otah passing the physical, or some wrongheaded notion on Sparano's part that interchangeable is the best approach to coaching the OL. Either way, it's not good.
That's what your reserve OLers are supposed to be for. It's much better to have a backup who can come in at OG or C than to have to move your LG to C, your RG to LG, and then stick in a reserve OG at RG if your C gets hurt. You have a "swing tackle" who can play both RT and LT so that if one of your OTs go down, you don't have to disrupt the entire OL. The Jets FO didn't learn from last season's disaster when Mangold got hurt. They still have only bodies and names on the depth chart rather than real prospects as their OL reserves. Who's the backup C again?
As far as I can tell, the only real roster change from last year is Otah, and he's a question mark at this point. So how is it (other than possibly coming from Otah) that we should expect a better overall performance from the OL? I ain't holding my breath, unless of course Otah gets it done.
It goes both ways my friend. 1999- Matt O'dwyer leaves for Cincy & Todd Burger isn't wanted anymore. Jets start former UDFA Kerry Jenkins & rookie Randy Thomas. O-line is a non issue in 1999 2000- Jumbo Elliot retires leaving a hole at RT. 7th round pick Ryan Young starts at RT & jason Fabini moves to LT. O-line is a non issue 2001- Ryan Young goes to the Texans in the expansion draft. 2nd round pick Kareem Mckenzie steps in for Young. O-line is a non issue 2004- Brent Smith enters TC as starting Lg but looks average at best. Jets make trade in July for Pete Kendall who plays at a pro bowl level. Jets O-line best in the AFC 2006- Say goodbye to Fabini & Adrian Jones. FA is slim pickings as is jets cap space. Jets sign Anthony Clement who is below average at best but is still "Hold the fort". Jets OL overachieves w/ 2 rookies & a hold the fort RT. Team makes playoffs at 10-6 2008- Jets O-line in severe need of talent upgrade. Jets Sign Faneca & Woody. Jets have one of best O-lines from 08-09 2010-Faneca is let go. Jets draft vlad and start Slauson. O-line is still one of best in league To say that the Jets never handle OL issues well is off base. Yeah, there have been some catastrophies, but there have also been success stories.
OL under Mangini was a priority Brick, Mangold, Faneca, Woody all brought in. Tannenbaum was there for those. They have made gigantic mistakes with Jones, Clarke, and Hunter though, quite polarizing.
True descriptions of the Jet's offensive line as of 7/30/2012: LT - D'Brickashaw Ferguson Solid player who is over-hyped because he was a high #1 pick. Weaker than you'd like in the run game but generally a solid pass protector. B+ LG - Matt Slauson Good versatile backup offensive lineman who can play several positions. Has never settled in one because he's not that good. Nobody looks at the guy and says "oh yeah, that's where he belongs why would you move him?" C LG - Vladimir Ducasse Huge player without the displayed reflexes and coordination necessary to play on the offensive line in the NFL. Is only still on the team because he was taken with a high draft pick and the Jets don't know when to cut their losses. F C - Nick Mangold One of the best centers in the game. Arguably the best center. Calls the protections and so when he goes out everything goes to hell in a hand basket. A+ RG - Brandon Moore Solid player coming off an injury plagued season. Is over the 30 line at this point and is a walking example of the year too early/year too late dilemma. In a more stable organization he probably would have been replaced this year but there are much bigger issues on the line right now. C+ RT - Jeff Otah Injury prone player who is a mortal lock to go down when the Jets really need him. May not even get out of camp at this point. On the 10% chance that everything works out he is a B+ player. D RT - Matt Slauson Good versatile backup offensive lineman who can play several positions. Has never settled in one because he's not that good. Nobody looks at the guy and says "oh yeah, that's where he belongs why would you move him?" C RT - Wayne Hunter 31 year old backup journeyman tackle coming off of one of the worst seasons a Jet offensive lineman has ever had. Rated 4th worst among all tackles in the NFL last year and that's only because the raters liked him. Probably has worse in him if the Jets continue to let him play at this point. F That folks is a mediocre offensive line with signs of Frankenstein staggering around in the flames written all over it. Unless something dramatic happens this is going to be a long season.
Brick: Above average run blocker- elite level pass protector. Can struggle w/ counter moves and consistency Grade: A- Slauson: Strong, versatile good feet when playing downhill. Average run blocker & average pass blocker Grade: C+ Mangold: Big strong,powerful. Elite as a run blocker and pass protector Grade A+ Moore: Reliable,durable graybeard. Average run blocker/ above average pass blocker. Quick out of his stance. Grade: B Otah: Durability is a major concern. Dominant run blocker/above average pass protector when healthy. Grade: Incomplete/ B- Hunter: Versatile, long aggression blocker w/ above average strength. Lacks concentration, feet & consistency. Solid back-up...below average starter Grade: D Ducasse: Big, strong physical specimen w/ explosive first step, the ability to bend, & long arms to create seperation. Struggles w/ pass pro technique, pre snap reads & can lose control of speed of game. The prospect of releasing him after only 2 seasons in the NFL is assanine, ridiculous & anyone suggesting such loses all credibility. Grade C-Still has immense upside The worst case scenario of this O-line is the same group(minus 1 player, who's replacement started in 2 playoff games one of which was a win) is the same group we had in 2010 that was one of the best units in football. The best case scenario gives the Jets major upgrades in the drive blocking department w/ Ducasse & Otah. Under that scenario Slauson & Hunter become top reserves..in essence giving the Jets the best ol depth they've have in years.
That's a nice list but a little deceptive. In '02 we let Young go and slid Kareem into the RT spot. We had injuries all along the OL, our early season struggles had nothing to do w/ Kerry Jenkins or machado. We got hot and played great offense w/ Machado starting. '03, our season was lost when Chad went down. '05 we missed on Adrian Jones but we had issues all over the OL including losing some guy named Kevin mawae for the first time. '07 was a disaster, another season ruined by Chad injuries and they did a great job in the offseason of turning a weakness into a strength overnight. It's not that the jets didn't want Woody, Woody wasn't sure he wanted to play and they had to make plans. Hunter played just fine in place of Woody in 2010 including starting he div rd at NE and title game at Pitt. if you think this team can go 4-12 I don't know what to tell you but try to be fair when doing your little recap sessions. In the time under woody's ownership we have had top 10 Ols the majority of the time which is why we have had one of the better franchises in the league under Woody.
It may be the definition of insanity, but I think Hunter can play a little better. He was a solid replacement OL in 2010. He's not a good lineman, but there's no reason he can't be as good as an Anthony Clement was. Mangold and Moore were hurt most of last year. D'Brickashaw took a step back for who knows what reason, he needs to step up. Slauson was hurt most of last year. I, like others, hope Ducasse wins the LG job. As a young, physically imposing player who finally has the coaching he needs, he still has a chance to be a long-term answer as a mauling LG. He'd be perfect for this team on paper. Whether he reaches that potential or not, I have no idea, but the best solution for this team involves him at LG. If the coaching staff truly feels Ducasse has improved enough where they are okay with him starting, then give Slauson reps at RT for sure. Again, it's only July, now is the time where you try things early in camp to see if they work. If it's September 7th, and we still are moving guys around trying to find the right answer, we have problems. Now, it's a matter of leaving no stone unturned. As bad as critics say the OL is, we still have the best C in the NFL and a top 10 LT. That's a damn good base.
Brad and Kurt, Nice discussion. I am somewhere in the middle on those grades. I rate Moore higher than Brad, but I do understand the point that Moore is getting older. And for Hunter, I don't know what the definition is of someone who deserves an F if it isn't him. People talking about a return to '10's performance need to accept two things. THe first is that there were essentially no injuries to the OL then, other than of course to Woody, which led to the now perhaps completely misleading conclusion that Hunter was up to being a starter. Ironically the team's overall lack of depth at OL was hidden by Hunter. The second is everyone is older, and putting VD aside, there is no help on the way from younger players. Add it up, and the Jets (unless of course Otah steps up bigtime) are not in a position to improve on their OL play last year. But of course that OL play was not as awful as some, particularly Sanchez apologists, would have you believe. Still, Hunter should not start, Slauson is mediocre, Moore is nearing the end of his shelf life, and Mangold needs to stay on the field or all hell will break loose, as we saw last year. Meanwhile VD has yet to show anything. Brad's F for him is something I agree with.
Barrett Brooks (formerly an Offensive Tackle in the NFL) was on ESPN Radio the other day, and he said that using guys in different spots is a good sign of versatility. He said there have been many linemen on New England who have had the ability to play along the OL, and Belichick has sought that type of versatility. He also said that, because linemen who play different spots must know other roles well, they have a greater understanding of each other and the line as a whole.
Ok, so now that Otah has been returned this is what is likely to happen: Wayne Hunter is very likely to play RT for us this season. The results will probably be worse than last season, although I'm guessing the entire offense is going to look worse because the Jets will be much more conservative when the limitations become clear and yet the execution will not be all that much better. The reason Hunter will play RT is that the only thing worse than a porous RT is a porous LT or LG. Ducasse isn't going to be an acceptable LG and so Slauson will have to play there. Hunter will again be better than Ducasse because basically if rigor mortis hasn't set in you're going to be better than Ducasse. Hopefully somebody will shake loose somewhere else during training camp and the Jets will sign them to save the day, shades of Dave Szott and Pete Kendall. If not this is going to be a long season.
When is it ever acceptable to write off an entire NFL season due to one player in the starting line-up? A right tackle no less?
Brent Smith Adrian Jones Adrien Clarke Wayne Hunter All key pieces in Jet disasters in the past. And if you think having your 3rd year franchise QB who played well in the playoffs two years running turning into David Carr at the end of an over-stressed season is not a disaster you're dreaming.
damn, can't believe that didn't click for me until now. If Tebow plays then WFH is the tackle on qb blind side. No qb should be having WFH as their blindside OT.
Brandon Moore( was UDFA converted DT) Kerry Jenkins Lonnie Paleilei Ryan Young Kareem Mckenzie Matt Slauson For every failed gamble O-linemen you can exhume, I can name one that worked out. Not to mention everyone of those players you mentioned were far from the only issues w/ their respective jets team.
Brandon Moore was being converted to RG the year Chad broke his wrist. He didn't start that year because he wasn't ready. Brent Smith got the starts in front of him. I forget who was in front of Chad when Micheal Barrow shattered his wrist. The point is you can't have failed gambles on the line. That's like having failed gambles on the wheels of your car. Doesn't matter if the gamble was 80/20 if you wind up in the ditch and the Jets have wound up in the ditch UNDER THIS REGIME several times in the last decade. I expect there's a good chance they wind up there this year also because I am factoring in their history here. Which is something they seem reluctant to do as they enter training camp with similar problems to the ditch years.
