As I assume you well know, Holmes was dealt by Pitt for things that did not involve football, but for off the field stuff. He was not a locker room problem. He did not have a team problem. I also stand by the fact it is ridiculous at this point to whine about him constantly. If he does not redeem himself this year, we can all take it from that point. But last year, there was plenty wrong going on in the Jet team, and pointing the finger at Holmes as somehow the most critical factor is BS.
When you assume I well know that, I don't know that and neither do you. I suspect Holmes got into it with Tomlin and other players in the locker room and the Steelers simply don't tolerate that crap. Why would anyone assume Holmes wasn't as devisive in the Steelers locker as he was in ours? Minor off the field problems isn't the reason we were able to rent him for practically nothing in a completely open market. Moore went after Holmes our longest tenured player who never said shit about anyone before. Who's whinning about him? He is what he is as is Sanchez but that doesn't give him a pass for being what he is either.
Perhaps I was wrong to assume you knew more than you apparently do (meaning don't). There are no press reports whatsover that anyone has ever produced here or that I am otherwise aware of that indicated he was a locker room problem in Pitt. Meanwhile it was well known that he had off the field issues, including a pending league suspension for testing positive for pot. Also meanwhile Pitt was dealing with the Ben rape charges and pending responses from the league on that. Moore went after Holmes after Holmes was critical of the OL's awful performances over the stretch from Balt to the first NE game. They were awful. Holmes said nothing that was incorrect. Here is a quote from a Daily News article from 10/18/12: "Holmes, named an offensive captain by Ryan in training camp, feels it's his duty to critique the job his teammates are doing. Moore, the most veteran Jet and perhaps the most respected player in the locker room, unloaded on Holmes for what really were fairly innocuous and accurate comments about the way the offensive line was playing." http://articles.nydailynews.com/201...44_1_rex-ryan-darrelle-revis-jets-locker-room I know some here think no player should ever say anything critical. I think Moore overreacted. Ryan had them make up publicly. And here is what Cimini said about the Moore - Holmes resolution of hte feud on December 17th last year: "FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- If the New York Jets beat the Philadelphia Eagles on Sunday and go on to make something special out of their season, we'll probably look back and try to identify a turning point. Because that's what we do in sports; we like to highlight Moments. "Maybe it'll be Darrelle Revis' 100-yard interception return against the Miami Dolphins in Week 6. Maybe it'll be Plaxico Burress' circus catch against the Buffalo Bills in Week 13. "He doesn't want to talk about it, but Santonio Holmes extended an olive branch to Brandon Moore -- and vice versa. "Or maybe, just maybe, it will be the night of Nov. 7, when Brandon Moore walked into the Jersey Lanes bowling alley in Linden. He attended a charity event hosted by Santonio Holmes. Other teammates showed up, too, but Moore's presence was significant because, only three weeks earlier, he and Holmes were engaged in a very public -- and ugly -- war of words that threatened to rip apart the locker room. "This past Monday, Holmes returned the favor, visiting Moore's annual Christmas party at a Boys and Girls Club in Newark. Holmes was a hit, mingling with the kids and playing games with them. " "It was good to see him," Moore said. "The kids really enjoyed it, getting to see Santonio Holmes. They got to play video games with him. That's not an everyday occurrence." "These may seem like small, routine gestures -- bowling and video games -- but they symbolize the harmony in the Jets' locker room. Let's not be naive here -- obviously, winning cures a lot -- but there's no doubt that the Moore-Holmes truce helped the team navigate difficult stretches. "The season survived two near-death experiences -- a three-game losing streak and the Tim Tebow debacle in Denver -- and here the Jets are, controlling their own playoff destiny with three games to play. "It was dramatically different in mid-October, when Moore, tired of Holmes publicly criticizing the offensive line, stepped out of character and fired back. It was stunning because of Moore's understated demeanor. He questioned Holmes' leadership as a captain, the kind of harsh rebuke rarely seen in professional locker rooms. "But it's just what they needed, just what the team needed before things spiraled out of control. At the time, they had lost three straight and there was internal tension. You got the feeling things were about to blow sky-high. "Moore and Holmes were summoned to Rex Ryan's office for a lecture, and Ryan trotted them out as game captains a couple of days later before they faced the Dolphins on Monday night. It was the beginning of the healing process. " "One of Rex's big things when all that went down was, in order for us to move together as an offense and as a team, you can't have two guys -- two leaders, two guys in front -- who aren't seeing eye to eye, holding grudges," said Moore, discussing that chapter at length for the first time since it occurred. " "It could be a distraction. Of course, in a locker room, you've got 60 guys in there, so everybody isn't going to get along. But we go into battle every week and I root for him just as much as he probably roots for me." "In retrospect, Ryan said he isn't surprised that Holmes and Moore -- two of his six captains -- buried the hatchet. " "I had all the confidence in the world we were going to move past it, and we did," he said. "It's never personal. We respect everybody in the locker room." ... "Even with what we said publicly, even through all that, I like 'Tone," Moore said. "He's a great player, a great teammate, one of the guys in practice that teaches and motivates. I enjoy being his teammate." http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/sto...oore-wr-santonio-holmes-made-key-jets-success And oh yeah, if Holmes was being such a cancer after the first loss to NE, then how come the Jets won their next three games?
In fact the more I think about it, it was what Moore said that was out of line. Holmes's criticism was limited to the play of the OL, and was quite accurate. What Moore said was personal, and questioned Holmes's integrity in over the top terms. In any event Ryan expected both of them to apologize. He apparently didn't think it was all on Holmes. The Holmes Haters need to move on...
So even if you give him the benefit of your "extrapolation", in his best year as a Jet he had the 25th most catches in the league. Yet in this thread he is being constantly mentioned as a top 10 WR in the league. The production simply don't match the accolades BB - Your defense of Holmes is heroic, but as long as Santonio Holmes is a "leader" of the Jets and "the got to" receiver, I will sleep soundly knowing soundly knowing the division is still strongly in our hands, (except those nights I think about the improvement the Bills have made). Bro' the guy is bad news. I know he made the difficult catch in the superbowl, but most people have forgotten that he flat out dropped a perfect TD pass just a couple of plays before. He will be fine when things are going well, but if he's not seeing the "Santonio Ratio" being filled, he's going to be the guy make it all about him. That's who he is. That's who he has been his entire career, and THAT's what he will be if he runs into some adversity.
Holmes was suspended by Tomlin for admitting to cops he was smoking pot 4 days before the Jets game in 08. It wasn't some off the field incident he was doing drugs between games during the season. The HC had to suspend him before a very big game. I would say that's indicative a problem for the team.
it doesn't matter that Holmes' criticism might have been accurate. You don't throw your freaking teammates under the bus or call them out publicly like that, especially when you are a "leader" and a "captain". If Holmes wanted to go up to the guys in the locker room and call them out, challenge their manhood, yada, yada, yada, that would have been completely different.
Rex had his blinders on and didn't even know they had a problem! Blaming this on Moore is really reaching....
I don't really understand this quote. Has he ever complained about not getting the ball enough? He sulks and gets pissy when the team is losing and playing poorly, but I've never seen any indication that he is motivated purely by his own stats.
He said once that he wants to be a HOF a receiver so he needs stats to get those. This is the indication. When him and Braylon were FA one of the arguments was Braylon had a big payday and just wants a ring, while Tone has a ring and just wants a big payday/stats. There is no concrete proof, and if we believe everything the media tells us then Plax/Mason/Tone went to Schotty and told him to run the ball more last year at some point. Besides that, I think he lets his frustration show too easily. He understands he was the best receiver on his team last year and the OC and QB did not utilize him properly. There are multiple ways to address this and if Tone did do things diplomatically, he still let his frustration spill into the media and onto the field. Everyone was talking up Santonio in 2010 how he was in Rex's ear calling plays for the defense and being the biggest cheerleader on the team. They were winning. They start losing and now he is the worst cancer to ever see the football field. He obviously leans more towards the bad teammate to good teammate but fact of the matter, you need a big catch from him and you are getting it. If you win you don't run into problems with him.
By the end of this season the Jets will have a new number 1 receiver, and Holmes will become expendable. I truely believe Holmes could be the #3 receiver at the start of next season. Not in pay, but in play.
This is the problem with a guy like holmes on your team. When winning, he is the best guy in the world, everybodys pale. When losing, he is the worst SOB on earth. So I conclude that, he has a desire to win. But, he has to understand he is a reciever (much like Revis is a CB) he can only impact the game so much. He needs to give 110% every play at his position in order become the impact player he truly is. I cant stand the thought of our two marquie player (Holmes and Revis) having the attention they do at the positions they play.
If you consider that to amount to being a locker room cancer, you have a different dictionary than I do. And btw how come, again, he is such a cancer if the Jets won three straight after his criticism of the OL? Patken, I am perfectly fine with a Pats homer such as yourself agreeing with the Holmes Haters.
I don't know what the "this" is you are referring to. I said that Moore's comments were personal and over the top, while Holmes's comments were accurate, describing the OL's poor play, and rather mild.
My complaint whith Holmes is that he sucked down the stretch. I can live with an entirely dysfunctional locker as long as they perform. Holmes problem is he's critical, he's a captain and he sucks, not to mention he used drugs during the season which took him off the field. I would call that a cancer. When things are going fine nobody bitches, it's when things are going south that behavior that impacts performance becomes a cancer.
Under the rules as they are, yes, if a player gets caught smoking pot against league rules he will be punished. I seem to recall Sean Ellis getting busted for pot. Would you call Sean Ellis a locker room cancer? I just think you are overreacting, along with too many others here, fueled by over the top media sensationalism, to what was perhaps unfortunate but understandable behavior by Holmes. You seem comfortable in your personal condemnation of him, although you've changed your focus and specifics. I doubt I can change your mind with any reasonable amount of further back and forths here. I merely suggest again that it is pointless to go on and on complaining about him. He's hardly the only or even anywhere close to most significant problem on the Jets last year, and going forward. He's not going anywhere, and if the Jet O is to show much improvement, Holmes will almost certainly have to be part of that. There's really not much more to say about it, other than that people should be wary of the press corps making mountains out of molehills.
He smoked weed when he was with the steelers. He has been out there every game since the 4 game suspension which is the reason we got him in the first place. To call him a cancer for smoking weed is silly.
