The salary cap is what makes Darrelle Revis worth much less than he would be in an uncapped environment. Compensation to Darrelle Revis = X Compensation to other Jets players = Y Salary Cap = X + Y Play Value of Darrelle Revis must equal X/(X+Y) for him to be valuable. Actually for an elite team the PV of Darrelle Revis must exceed X/(X+Y). Every player on an elite team has more Play Value than their cap number which is how the elite team becomes elite. On the Jets over the course of the 4 year extension that Darrelle Revis signed X averages $11.5M and X + Y = $124 million (give or take a few depending on how the cap goes over the next few years). So Darrelle Revis has to be 9.2% of the Jets overall play value over those 4 years for the Jets to break even. For the Jets to be elite he has to do better than that. How much better? Well the elite teams tend to win 12 games every year on average. The average team wins 8 games. That's a 50% increase in wins, which argues that the Play Value for a starter on an elite team needs to be about 50% more than the play value for a player on an average team. So for the Jets to be an elite 12 win team the contribution that Darrelle Revis makes for his $11.5M cap number needs to be more like $17 million. For them to be elite. He doesn't need to get paid $17 million, he needs to play like he's worth $17M while earning $11.5M. On the Jets, for every dollar that Darrelle Revis is paid over his play value another position will be underpaid because the cap is the great balancer. It will be that much harder to find a player who can give you the value required to be an elite team when Y shrinks the way it does as X grows. It will be particularly hard to find and keep players capable of playing at the 50% over cap level that being an elite team requires, because those players will eventually move on to teams willing to compensate them well. This is just math. You're never going to find a CB who is actually worth 10%+ of a team's salary cap. The value in the position just isn't there. Paying a CB like he's a QB just makes you uncompetitive over the long run.
It's just simple math. Look at what the dominant CB's in football have done in the capped environment in terms of actually winning Super Bowls. They've always been highly paid but they're rarely on the winning teams. Deion Sanders is used as the counter example to the argument. However he picked teams that were ready to win Super Bowls and joined them. The talent was already there. Both teams that he joined already had a franchise QB and a franchise WR. They already had a strong offense. They both already had a very strong defense. Deion Sanders joining those teams and helping them win was a no-brainer. They were already there and he was the cherry on top. Ty Law is used as the recent counter example. Law however was just part of the picture on the Patriots defenses. They had an excellent defensive line and very good linebackers. They had a very good strong safety. Law got his All-Pro's because he was on a great defense and the team won it all. He actually wasn't present for one of the Super Bowl wins at all due to injury. That didn't stop the Pats from winning the game anyway. In years that the Pats did not win a Super Bowl Ty Law made 2 Pro Bowls in 11 seasons. It wasn't a mirage that he played at a high level during their runs however that high level wasn't what caused the runs. It was a contributing factor and probably a result of having one of the best defensive minds ever coaching him. One of Ty Law's Pro Bowl years was with the Jets in 2005. He intercepted 10 passes which I think is still the Jets record for a season. The Jets went 4-12. Cornerback in a nutshell right there. BTW, the reason Darrelle Revis hasn't won a Super Bowl yet is that the rest of the Jets personnel is not up to the task. Signing Revis to a huge contract isn't going to change that basic fact for him or the Jets. If Darrelle Revis wants to win a Super Bowl any time soon he needs to let his contract expire after 2013 and do what Deion did, which is to go look for the best team in football that needs a CB and sign there.
still doesn't which is why they play competitve games between the Yankees (300 M payroll) and the KC Royals (37 M payroll) and tell you that it's a fair fight
Both of these points are true. Dominant front seven player is going to accomplish more than a dominant CB. Especially in today's game where there's so many receivers out there every play. === Would love to see Revis retire as a Jet. One of the few things I'd like to see more is the Jets winning SB. Positions that requires so much salary cap percentage needs to be making an impact on either every offensive play or every defensive play. QB, dominant pass rushers who can also stuff the run and play every down is pretty much it. Revis deserves to get paid but if making him the highest paid CB in NFL means not having enough to build up the rest of the team then he can walk.
Revis IS the best defensive player in the NFL by miles and Revis is a sure inductee in the HOF while Klecko will probably never make the list
Kill yourself. I brought this thread to the table BEFORE we had all of this Mevi$ contract shit AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN. Yes I don’t stutter; this is the third time he is holding his team hostage. If he didn’t like the deal; why sign? If you want an overhyped (He’s a god damn CB for Christ sake) player taking up 13 Million+ a year then you my friend should be a Skins fan. The Jets make Revis relevant, not the other way around. Go play in Buffalo, JAX, TEN, MIN, AZ, or Fucking SEA for all I care. Take your $ and never even sniff the playoffs or National recognition. Back to my hole (my corner office on the 45th floor). Question for you: What Corner Back has taken his team to the super bowl, Deion Sanders? I think not. (Aikman, Young, Smith, Rice, Irvin, Waters) Point is no CB, not even the greatest CB to ever play this game, is worth this bull shit. His perceived value is high than his actual value. That’s why a Trade is the only answer. A team overpays based on the “perceived” value of Revis. Actually, then end up with a player on the back end of his prime, pay him what he wants, and gives up 2 1st round picks for it. The Jets get cap relief, 3 number one picks (they have their own) and the ability to build the team in positions they want/need. (ok.. draft a round one CB to play nickel with Cro and Wilson). We get younger, cheaper, and deeper without Revis. I would argue the immediate talent drop off isn’t as high as some think; but the long term ceiling is waaaayyy higher!
Revis is better at his position than Ware is at his position but Ware's position has more of a noticeable impact on the game. Not too difficult of a concept to grasp. Revis is clearly the best defensive player but he plays one of the least impact defensive positions.
How can the best defensive player in the league be a CB? If Jets played the Lions, Revis would be the most important defensive player on the field for both teams & shutting down Megatron would change the whole game. However, Not every offense in the league builds their offense around a dominant #1 WR. Shutting down Wes Welker doesn't prevent the Pats O from rolling over the Jets D & it's the Pats who are in the same division. Dominant pass rusher who's good enough to stop the run would be able to cause trouble for the offense every play.
Best defensive player to me means best at their position. That is Revis. He isn't close to any other peers at CB. He is probably better at his position than most other players at their position. If you encompass impact of position then Revis is clearly not the best.
The thing that's really interesting is that you can make an argument that franchise WR's are just as over-valued as shutdown corners. If you look at the great receivers in the game today you generally see a Hall of Fame bound QB throwing to them or their absence from the big games. My list of the great WR's playing today is basically this: 1. Calvin Johnson 2. Larry Fitzgerald 3. Andre Johnson 4. Roddy White 5. Steve Smith Those are the guys that cannot be shutdown 1 on 1 with any consistency and that still put up great numbers when they are bracketed by a CB and a S. They're the guys that you expect to catch the game-winning TD or make the long reception that puts the game away. Ok, now looking at the teams they play for, which of those teams has exceeded expectations during their careers? With the exception of Johnson and White they are all long-term vets at this point. Have Arizona, Houston or Carolina been consistent contenders with their best player out on the wing? Arizona did make a Super Bowl and Fitzgerald was a huge contributor but that was Kurt Warner's farewell. A great QB with one last hurrah and a couple of great receivers to throw too. I think the NFL as a whole is allocating too much money out on the wings. If you look at who has won Super Bowls in the passing era with the exception of the 2006 Colts you see a collection of underpaid receivers who got the job done. You don't see a collection of overpaid CB's who stopped the other team's #1 WR and won the Super Bowl for their team. In a strange way the perception of Darrelle Revis value is based on the misperception of the value of #1 WR's as a whole. Truth be told neither side of the equation is worth the amount of cap space that teams are devoting to it. And giving up one side or the other, or even both does not seem to materially effect a team's ability to win it all. Quite the opposite in fact: the teams that have won Super Bowls lately have done it without spending much on their WR's or CB's.
1. Cro can take over #1 role - regardless of what you think of him. Same with Wilson - he can work #2 role, if he gets help. Jets do not need to shell out another prime time CB even if Revis leaves. 2. Having both Revis AND Cro for a long term with monster contracts means this team will never sniff SB. Either he or Cro has to go. What you don't realize now is that, Jets have invested whopping 22M on Revis, Cro and Wilson this year. That's more than 1/6 of the total salary cap. If you are investing that much in CB spot, you must get the worth out of it. Just the problem is, you can't get that kind of production out of CBs - hell, they are almost useless in any inside run plays for instance. That's not a smart business no matter how you slice it. Consider this. You can categorize the players (both offense and defense) into between-the-hash players and sideline players. Quite simply, players who line up between hashes (OL/QB/RBs/TE for offense, DL/LBs/Safeties for defense) are the between-the-hash players and those who line up at the sideline (WR and CB) are the sideline players. If at all, you do not sub OL in and out depending on rush or run. The OL stays constant nearly throughout the entire game, regardless of the situation. That's where you can get a lot of production out of players. Same with QB. That's where your heaviest investment should be made. Same for defense. DL, Safeties and LBs stay through all three downs, and make impact. They are the core of any good defense. Now, if Revis was playing at his level while in FS spot, then I would say without a second thought, pay that man and forget about the whole deal. In reality, Revis plays at CB. That decreases his impact greatly. Ok - he is good. I admit that. Is he 11M+ good? I don't think so. If it were up to me, since I haven't seen Cro holding out, so I'd rather go with Cro. 3. Trade or not, having 1/6 of the entire salary cap (and I just accounted for three, so it will be more than that, mind you.) at CB spot is a dumb fuck thing to do. Mark my words on that.
Alright, going with your wording I would agree. The gap between #1 and everyone else @ CB is bigger than any other position in NFL right now. If I had to pick defensive player with biggest impact, I'd choose a dominant front seven player.
I would take Steve Smith and Roddy White on that list. Both have trouble playing at an elite level without WR opposite them or a solid QB. I think only Calvin, Larry, and Andre can play without WR opposite them and a solid QB. Calvin obviously jumped as Stafford jumped but he was always putting up numbers without him. Marshall at times can play but only when he feels like it. He doesn't go 100% all the time. There are different ways to build a team. As of right now the trend seems to be QB play but when you look at it, it really is a solid defense that then lets a young QB grow with big game experience. Eli, Big Ben, Rodgers, Brady, all won Super Bowls then a couple years later jumped into the top 10 QBs of the league. Their defenses let them win their first super bowls and stay in the game with average play. The QB's that went against this trend were Brees and Peyton who became top 10 QB's then went on to win the Super Bowl. There are different ways to build a team, but as of right now defense seems to be the trend with a QB who can manufacture a late drive.
And what this means is that you'd probably pick about ten players on the defensive side before you even considered Revis. Maybe more. Because the talent in the defensive front 7 is more tightly bunched than the talent at CB with Revis standing out a head higher than everybody else. This is similar to if you were going to pick the best offensive players. About ten QB's would come off the list before any other offensive position was even considered. That's the position value over individual value in a nutshell.
Yeah, we just interpreted it differently. Like how MVP is interpreted by people to mean most valuable and best player. Sometimes those are the same, but a lot of times they differ. Same thing what we did here.
