What about Buffalo's defense giving up 5 touchdowns? Does that get totally erased because they had a few picks? It's a silly argument. Fitzy still made the drive at the end of the game to win. When Wilson intercepted the ball inside Buffalo's 10, Fitzy still had to drive. After the Pats tied it late, Fitzy still had to drive. I assume you give Sanchez little credit for the win in Pittsburgh in 2010 or the opener last year because the big plays were made by the defense and special teams. That's the only way this argument is fair.
What the Giants did with Eli is what every team should do with a young QB. They let him get a little time on the sidelines watching somebody else play QB and seeing the speed of the NFL compared to college. Then they put him in to take his lumps and took the losses that come with that. They yelled at him (a Tom Coughlin specialty) when he made an obvious mistake and they didn't cover up the flaws by adjusting the game plan to something that was not a realistic NFL game plan over the long run. They took their lumps also in the process. When some of their players got frustrated and started talking behind the QB's back they shipped those players out. Tiki Barber was not offered another contract and chose to retire. Jeremy Shockey was traded. Those were the two best offensive players on the team but they weren't as important as the screw-up franchise QB. What the Jets did with Sanchez was to throw him on the field right away screaming "SUPER BOWL" at the top of their lungs while they did it. They let him take his lumps for a few games and then they radically altered the game plan to something that would not work long-term in the modern NFL to try to squeeze into the playoffs, which thanks to two tanking teams at the end worked. If they yelled at Sanchez when he screwed up it wasn't apparent. Of course when he won the game wrong he'd occasionally get a guy in his face during the celebration to bring him back to earth. Talk about mixed messages. Trent Dilfer is absolutely right. You could write a book about how not to raise a young QB in the NFL and just title it "Jets".
The 4 picks and TD kept Buf in the game. Fitz did engineer the drive just like he did the week before vs. oak, congrats to him. Where was that magic the rest of the year? why did they stop scoring and winning after the D stopp turning it over and scoring? I didn't bring up the Pitt game in 2010, no I wouldn't give Mark the credit for the game. he played well but he wasn't great.
You're downplaying his impact on that game by mentioning 200 yards and 0 TDs. His throw to Braylon down the sideline was THE play that set up the GW FG in a PLAYOFF game.
In my opinion, the main thing is they never let Sanchez learn. Instead of learning how to do something, it was change the philospohy or this and that to protect him. To let him grow as a QB you need to let him sling the ball. Unfortunately the Jets were in a position where all they needed was the QB position in 09 so they were stuck in a tough spot. I think that not turning the ball over + completition percentage was drilled into Sanchez's head so much that it messed with his natural football ability and instincts.
There are many ways, some guys do well after sitting, some guys do well right away. Tiki would have been back had he not retired, they didn't get rid of Shockey until after 2007. they did it 2 different ways yet the jets were ahead of the Giants and the QBs at a similar path after 3 years so what was wrong w/ that? It's easy to look back now but prior to the Ginats D carrying them to a SB in '07 the rumblings about how bad of a trade the Eli one was were loud then it took 4 more years to win another playoff game and they had another great postseason(this time w/ Eli playing really well except for SF). The Giants are a play or 2 away from having zero SBs and if that happeed would you be touting him? Mark was developing very well until the OL collapsed, there was nothing the Jets could do about that.
I never claimed there was magic the rest of the year. I was actually giving Sanchez credit for the 2010 comebacks, which I said was fair because I give Fitzy at least some measure of credit for the two big comebacks last year. Then you made a bad argument that Fitzy's comeback shouldn't be credited to him because our defense made some turnovers, despite the fact that the defense also gave up a ton of points.
This is a load of malarkey though. The Jets offensive line didn't collapse in 2007 or last year due to injuries. It collapsed because the team management does not respect the offensive line. They drafted one offensive lineman in the first 5 rounds between 2007 and 2011 and were shocked (shocked!) when it turned out that the offensive line was thin and less talented than it needed to be during a Super Bowl window year. Really? Shocked?
let's put 2007 aside. How don't they respect the OL? They drafted multiple guys the last few years, is it their fault their best backup got hurt in preseason? is it their fault Wayne Hunter flopped? you wanted multiple 1st rounders on the OL after using 2 in 2006? You wan t a 1st rd OL every year? does that guarantee success? Brandon Moore was undrafted and wasn't even an OL coming out, there are early rd busts every year including our own Ducasse.
I just wanted them to recognize that the offensive line is a key part of the team. Probably the most important part after the QB. What the Jets have done over the years is really very instructive in terms of how the current management team views that very important part of the team. 2001 - Drafted Kareem McKenzie 3rd. 2002 - Drafted Jonathan Goodwin 5th, let Kerry Jenkins go, signed Dave Szott. 2003 - Drafted Dave Yovanovits 7th, let Randy Thomas go, signed Brent Smith/Brandon Moore. 2004 - Drafted Adrian Jones 4th and Mark Cavka 6th, let Dave Szott go, Signed Pete Kendall. 2005 - Drafted nobody, let Kareem McKenzie go. Epic collapse... 2006 - Drafted D'Brick 1st, Mangold 1st, let Mawae, Fabini go, signed Anthony Clement. 2007 - Drafted Jacob Bender 6th, let Kendall go, signed Adrien Clarke and Rob Turner. Epic collapse. 2008 - Drafted Nate Garner 7th, let Clement and Clarke go, signed Alan Faneca, Damien Woody and Wayne Hunter. 2009 - Drafted Matt Slauson 6th. 2010 - Drafted Vladimir Ducasse 2nd, let Alan Faneca go. 2011 - Drafted nobody, let Damien Woody go, signed Colin Baxter. Epic collapse... 2012 - Drafted nobody, let Rob Turner go, signed some bodies belatedly. What does this produce? I see a front office that treats offensive linemen like interchangeable slats in a fence. To save the day on a couple of occasions they have signed multiple late career vets or drafted a couple of guys high to try to save the day after a collapse the previous season. The offensive line is not something you can react to problems on. You need to be on it all the time and reacting to problems that might crop up in a year or two. The Jets have actually been damn lucky with injuries on the line. If they hadn't gotten lucky like that the list of lost years would be much longer. If Mangold breaks his ankle last year instead of the high ankle sprain we're looking at another 4-12 disaster.
I',m not sure what the previous regime has to do w/ this. They didn't let Kareem and Thomas go, they didn't want to overpay them like their new teams did. That doesn't look like a bad list to me outside of drafting ducasse in rd 2, we did draft a G this year in the 6th rd by the way. I wanted an upgrade at RT, thy feel comfortable going w/ him. It was only a year ago they signed him to a new deal. We'll see what happens. Mangold missed much of the Past game at home 2 years ago, we had Turney to fill in and we won w/ a great 2nd half. This past year we lost Turner then Mangold, that's just bad luck. In the salary cap era it's hard to go 3 deep.
The previous regime is still in place. When Terry Bradway leaves the building we can start talking about them in the past tense. As it is the moves the Jets make now look just like the moves Bradway used to make when he was GM and so the regime never went away, the Jets just put a new face on it. Now they have the "genius talent guy" behind the scenes with the "genius cap guy" out front. They've just swapped places. The same inadequate management style still rules the Jets.
Sure the OL has suffered but it's not like that's the only side of the game they have to worry about. It's easy to say they should draft more top end OL players but if they are drafting them they aren't drafting something else so you have holes there. Rightly or wrongly the Jets have put a huge emphasis on the defensive side of the ball, everyone is aware of that. That means the OL suffers a bit. That's the same with every NFL team, not every NFL team has stars (or even legit starters) at every position. Every team has holes. Take the Pats for example: their focus is on offense which is why their defense is so bad. Does the fact that they have issues on defense mean that they are doing a bad job in general? Well they did just go to the Super Bowl, so I'm going to say no.
Positions the Jets have not drafted a high impact player at since 2001: QB RB WR TE LG RG DE DT OLB S Positions they have drafted a high impact player at since 2001: LT C ILB (two) CB That's a pretty bad record in terms of putting high impact players on the field via the draft. Even with RT a push with Kareem McKenzie the Jets have not managed to do much with their drafts in terms of getting great players on the field.
Is high impact just great players or solid starters that contribute to a winning team? I would say Sanchez was a good pick we drafted santana Moss who has been a multiple PB player Shonn Greene has been good for us Keller is a borderline PBer Slauson is a solid starter Sione Pouha Bryan Thomas How have we been one of the better teams in the AFC the last decade w/ such crappy drafts? Not every player has to be great, we've drafted pretty well over the last decade, much better than we drafted from the mid 80s through the late 90s.
Like I said in the sentence after that, I know there were reasons for that (i.e...joining the Jets after camp), but the point was, that he didn't run Shotty's offense.... you can't really point to his first 8 games as being a success story for Shotty's offense if he wasn't even running Shotty's offense. I never said Favre was a cerebral QB either, I simply said that I'd bet money that if Shotty called a play that he "knew" wasn't going to work, or if he saw something that Shotty didn't, he 'd change the play call in a heartbeat anyway. Has nothing to do with being cerebral, has everything to do with experience and balls....both of which Favre has plenty of.
the last 2 regimes have provided the talent for the best stretch of sustained success in the history of the franchise.
It has become compounded since Ryan came to the Jets. Other than Sanchez, and now Hill in the fourth year, the only higher level draft pick going to the O was VD, and he so far has been Suckage Personified. Oh yea, I forgot McKnight. Meh.
It would not be out of character for them to think that drafting OL with high picks is not exciting for marketing purposes or something.
The Key word is "High impact".Dominant, consistent pro bowlers. To me that means there are only a handful of these guys in every draft class. Not every team is going to land a impact talent in every draft. How can you discount players like Keller, Sanchez,Greene,BT,Slauson,Pouha, Hell even Eric smith..who are above average in their roles & have contributed to success on the field? Seems to me your expectations for the way this team is built is out of whack.
