Funny how that topic has come and gone and the discussion for the last page and half was about the quality of completion and nfl teams in the 80s,90s, and 00s. Then here you go crying about crying jets fans and stirring up the topic again when it was done. The funny part was tha when discussin spyware there was actual discussion and acknowledgments of each others points between opposing fans and you come from nowhere now that the topic was dead and try to incite people instead of making a rational argument by itself. On phone and too lazy to fix any typos.
Look, I am never going to give the Pats full credit for what they did from 2001 to 2004. Knowing the other team's defensive signals and relaying those signals to the QB in real-time was an obvious exploitation of the rules. Using video equipment to institutionalize the practice of discovering those signals, in direct violation of NFL rules at the time, just makes it more obvious that something was seriously wrong here. If the Pats only win one Super Bowl between 2001 and 2004 they'd have lost picks all over the place and Bill Belichick probably would have been run out of the NFL by the league office. It was the fact that the Patriots win 3 Super Bowls in that span that caused the NFL to burn the tapes and slap the organization and coach on the hand. The league couldn't afford a major scandal that called the basic principles of fair competition into question. It had too much to lose. I do think the NFL now has a "No Patriot Super Bowl wins unless they blow out the other team" clause in effect. I don't think the Pats will win another close Super Bowl game in our lifetimes. They've got the Raider ban on them and that ban is damn effective in keeping a team from winning the big one.
You are one of the smartest guys on this site, but on this issue you are totally off the mark. You can't seem to get past your hate to look at it from any real practical point of view. How could the Pats steal signs (in real time) when the video guys were using cam-corders and handing in the tapes AFTER the game? Also, you just don't want to accept that taping the other teams signals was NOT and is NOT against any rules! Where they were taping from was an infraction of a league-wide change that occered during the 2006 season. And the idea that they would not win a close SB because of this is the silliest thing yet. They lost two close SB's due to two great plays, a dropped interception, and a dropped (or mis-thrown) pass that puts the game away.
You can't possibly be stupid enough to believe that what Goodell said translates to saying the Pats did nothing illegal. Maybe you thought highlighting half the sentence would fool people? Even then, it doesn't match what you're trying to claim he said. I mean it wouldn't even make sense - why would he tell the senator that the Pats did nothing illegal but then hand out huge punishments to the Pats for "not doing anything illegal". Those are YOUR words which don't match up with what the commish actually said. Do you collect a paycheck from Belichick for hopelessly trying to defend his cheating? BTW, from the same article:
1) The video camera was a camcorder, not a direct feed of the game. Please explain how the Pats were able to use a camcorder to get the signals into the game within a 3-5 second window before the ball is snapped? 2) That is totally false. As long as you tape from the press box or end zone, teams can tape anything they want, including opposing teams signals.
This thread outlines the exact reasons why i have no respect for 80% of the Patriots fan base. They still to this day try to justify blatant cheating. What the ramifications of that cheating was..& how it affected games is debatable..but the justification & downplaying is just downright immoral.
Once again you interpret what you want to see. I highlighted that part of the quote to point out that even Goodell didn't know if some of the 2006 tape they got from the Pats wasn't collected legally. I did it to point out that in 2006 it was LEGAL to tape signals. Ergo making the haters' claim that what the did in 2007 had anything to do with the 3 Pats superbowl wins in 2001, 2003, and 2004 What the Pats did in 2007 was against league policy and they were rightfully punished for it. I though it was overly harsh, but I can at least understand it as a reaction from a new commissioner trying to establish his power. Clearly we have a disagreement as to the impact of the penalties, but can you at least acknowledge that what the Pats did in 2007 had NOTHING to do with the super bowl wins, years before, since, even if they were taping then, it was perfectly legal and doing it was open to all 32 teams
No where in what you posted does it say it was legal, but you already know that. Your lies are no better than Belichicks.
Let me spell it out to you since you seem too obtuse to grasp the obvious. Taping WAS NOT against NFL policy in 2001, 2003, 2004. Ergo none of those super bowl wins should be questioned. What is so hard about this simple equation that you cannot comprehend, How can you even question the veracity of it. BTW- Despite my harsh response, I do find you one of the better posters here, so this blind spot seems inconsistent, much like Bra4way, who also is a good poster who is even further to the right in his delusion.
You do realize that with changes in league structure, FA rules, salary cap, evolution of the game, rule changes, etc its just dumb trying to compare teams across decades right? That being said I really think the Pats compare really favorably to Otto Graham's Browns!
..And what about the radio tapping? People forget about that b/c it wasn't as publicized as the camcorder on the sidelines. Several teams complained of radio frequency issues at Gillette stadium & for a good month period after spygate hit the NFL had to aggressively monitor all radio communications at the stadium. As if video taping formation/play signals wasn't enough...they listened in on field communications. To me, it has never just been about the use of a camera...it's the all inclusive efforts of espionage that clearly transpired. Perhaps all teams do one form of another of "advanced scouting". But the Patriots took it to a whole new level. There's no defense for it...absolutely none.
Let me spell it out stealing your brothers candy from his trick or treat bag wasn't stealing until dad said so. It was steal stealing. The Pats stole signals and it was against league policy at the time.
You can't really spell it out well for a Pats fan. The worst thing that can happen to your team is they are horrible for a long period of time. The second worst is that they actually win a few Super Bowls and it turns out they were cheating along the way. It's a defense mechanism for them, as it was for the NFL, to deny the obvious. The Pats should have been stripped of the titles and Belichick should have been barred from the NFL.
Nah. We prefer things the way they are. Your fanbase's snide arrogance is merely a cover up for feelings of anguish & disbelief surrounding the tainted "glory years". Maybe the Jets haven't reached the level of any glory..but at least it's honest. Everyone of those Jet wins I've seen in my lifetime is honest and forth right. I sleep easy as a football fan. Do you:smile:
Whatever happened to Eddie, the idiot savant that used to walk three paces behind Belicheck everywhere he went to impart mysterious wisdom to him? Never hear about him anymore.
I think you meant "Ernie," as in Ernie Adams. Still with the team. He and Belichick are friends from prep school... story goes, when Belichick met his new roommate, he had a copy of Belichick's father's book on scouting (which was one of something like 24 copies sold). Adams is still with the Patriots. He has a really ambiguous job title ("Football Research Director") and is actually only rarely spotted. The joke has always been that several players would see him around but never knew who he was, or what he did for the team. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=adams
Nice try. For one, that play didn't affect the outcome of the game in anyway other than the potential health of a special teamer. Secondly, the Jets lost that game 10-6 (I was there).
