Reading this thread really makes you appreciate Rex Ryan even more. The Jets were mediocre under Herm and Eric.
I do appreciate Rex but 3 playoff seasons in 5 years was not mediocre especially considering we had a total of 2 playoff apps from 1987-2000.
I loved Herman. I thought he did a pretty good job here. He wasn't a great or legendary coach but the players wanted to play for him and we had some pretty good success. There were things that he could have done better, no doubt about it. But overall I thought those years were pretty good and I think he was a good hire.
I think the Jets are a very different team and a better team if Al Groh stays and they never make the switch from the 3-4 to the 4-3. I think they could have done much better with a different GM from 2001 to 2005. Bradway basically took a wealth of riches from the Parcells era and watched it go to dust over a 5 year span. There was an overhanging cap problem but that problem was largely resolved by the Aaron Glenn to the Texans move in the expansion draft. We'd never have drafted D-Rob, let alone traded up to do so. We probably wouldn't have farted around with Randy Thomas until he got away. We definitely wouldn't have let Laveranues Coles go immediately after he emerged as a star caliber player. When you look back at team's histories and see where the windows vanished there's usually one guy you can point at. For the Jets of the 80's it was Spanky Walton, who for all his acumen as an offensive coach could never adequately protect his QB. For the Jets of the early 00's it was Terry Bradway, a guy who was hopelessly outmatched by the job and ultimately watched his team crumble to dust in front of him.
Why? Wasn't the perrenial Pro-Bowler Adrian Clarke good enough for you? lmao @Junc - I think you are a fountain of knowledge - sometimes useless, but on target most of the time. To say Herm wasn't poor at clock management is like saying Bellicheat isn't that guarded with the media. Puh-lease...
There's no doubt that Bradway was in over his head as the GM. The fleecing we faced in 2003 and his mismanagement of the OL are the two biggest things that stand out to me. Oh and you can add in the trade up to get Robertson.
You're right. Sorry about that. Got my years mixed up a bit. I recall that Baltimore game being amazing to watch. Vinny started off on fire, and we looked like we were going to smash that amazing Ravens D. We put up 524 yards against them, which, if you recall, should have been impossible. And our D was handling them pretty easily, too. Unfortunately, Vinny started tossing pick sixes and dropping fumbles, and special teams started giving up field position and TDs...... Oakland was certainly better than we were that year. I remember both their D- and O-lines smashing us in the mouth. In fact, one of my two best memories of Herm's tenure was beating the Raiders to get into the playoffs that year. The other was smashing the Colts 41-0 in the playoffs the next year.
Parcells did an AWFUL job w/ the draft, most of the successful guys were players he inherited. Groh had a great 2000 draft which helped Herm but we had 4 people walk awy from that job, if we had as much talent as some of you think there's no way e have 4 people walk away- it's kind of like 5 since BP walked away TWICE. Randy Thomas was badly overpaid, we did just fine w/ Pete Kendall. We never missed Coles much w/ the emergence of Moss and again he was vastly overpaid. Keep in mind Washington had very little success w/ these players. The team was in cap hell when BP left and he didn't bring in much talent in his 4 years there- the best draft we had was when Groh ran the draft.
Kendall replaced Dave Szott at LG. Randy Thomas was our RG and was replaced by JP Machado who is one of my least favorite Jets players. Moss did not replace Coles. Coles and Pennington could have been a top tier passing combo. It would have been great to have Moss and Coles as our starting receivers in 03 & 04 instead of Chrebet and McCareins opposite Moss. The biggest reason why Washington didn't have success w/ those guys was because of Steve Spurrier. Yes, Washington vastly overpaid for those guys, but it should have never got to the point where they were available for Washington to take.
we had a hole at G, Kendall filled that hole and Brandon Moore slid in at RG. We were fine at that point. It made no sense to overpay for Randy Thomas as much as we wanted to keep him just like iot made no sense to overpay for Ryan Young 2 years earlier. I would have loved to have Moss and Coles but our O did not suffer w/o him. It suffered when Chad got hurt, Washington overpaid for him and gave up 2 1st rd picks. We did the right thing by not matching the offer. Spurrier was gone wuickly and gibbs was back and they still didn't have much success. We should have overpaid then sooner? we didn't have a ton of cap room back then and had guys like Chad, Abe and Ellis coming up. Guys they wanted to keep more than the interchangeable parts they let go. We all wanted to keep those guys but it wasn't really possible.
We did not replace Randy Thomas w/ Pete Kendall. JP Machado replaced Randy Thomas and was terrible. We brought in Dave Szott in 2002 to replace Kerry Jenkins and then replaced him w/ Pete Kendall in 2004. We replaced JP Machado w/ Brandon Moore in 2004 as well. It made no sense to over pay for Ryan Young because we had Kareem McKenzie ready to take over. We did the right thing in not matching Coles' deal w/ the Redskins. But that's not the point. The point is it should have never got to that point. They had some success w/ Gibbs. They didn't win any SB's but they made the playoffs a couple of times. Spurrier was awful. Unless a player is real stubborn or looking for a monster payday, you can usually get guys to stay when you give them reasonable deals. Both of those guys could have been signed long before FA started. Bradway let a lot of young guys go, especially on the OL.
Here's the talent that Bradway inherited from Parcells: QB Testaverde, Pennington RB Martin, Anderson WR Chrebet, Coles, Ward (54 catches for 801 yards in 2000) TE Becht OL Fabini, Jenkins, Mawae, Thomas, Young K, P Hall, Tupa DL Ellis, Abraham, Ferguson, Burton LB Lewis, Jones, Farrior, Phifer, (Cox - leaving because Parcells/Groh left) CB Glenn (cap casualty either way), Coleman S Green, Hayes, Willams That's a lot of talent to inherit. That's the main reason the Jets went 10-6 in 2001 and 9-7 in 2002 and made the playoffs each season. Then that talent began to fall away without adequate replacement. That's why the Jets collapsed in 2005 and began a total rebuild. Bradway failed to provide enough talent to prevent a systemic collapse in the 5 years he had the Jets and he let enough of the younger talent flee that when the old guys went nothing was left.
you are right but we needed a G and signing Pete Kendall solved that, our G's in 2004 were as good as our G's in 2002. Didn't we re-sign Chrebet going into '02? that should have been Coles' money. The NFC was very weak, they won one playoff game in 4 seasons. They had very little success, our 2004 team was better than any of their teams w/ Moss as our #1, Kendall & Moore at the guard spots. what other young guys on the OL? Just thomas and McKenzie and both were vastly overpaid. Kareem we couldn't sign early, he was determined to get to FA, we probably could have re-signed Thomas. They thought they had Kareem's replacement in Adrian Jones like they did when they had Kareem to replace young- obviously they whiffed on that one.
QB: Pennington was drafted by Groh, Vinny was OLD and a year removed from missing a season then throwing 25 INts the next season. RB: martin- obviously a great help Anderson was here pre-Parcells WR- Chrebet was drafted pre-Parcells Coles drafted by Groh Ward was nothing more than an avreage player who looked better when Key & Chrebet were playing great and D's didn't pay attention to him. TE- Becht was drafted by Groh OL- fabini- great pick Mawae- great signing Jenkins- great signing Thomas- great pick Young- average DL- Ellis- was drafted by Groh Abe drafted by Groh(was drafted as a LB, Herm's staff converted him to DE where he became a top player in this league) Ferguson missed 2001 but was a nice holdover Burton was a nice FA signing by Groh but an average player LB- Mo was old and arrived long before BP, Jones same thing Farrior was a bust, had by far his best year under Herm and priced himself out of staying phifer didn't do much here Cox- gave him a cap busting deal that he knew the Jets couldn't keep him w/ just before he left. CB: Glenn, brought in pre-BP coleman, pre-BP S- Green pre BP hayes- nice STer williams- not a good player All that talent was there in 2000, why did they choke and miss the playoffs then make it a year later? BP did a terrible job w/ the draft, he did a nice job w/ the OL and hitting on a few FAs but overall w/ the talent he inherited he didn't do a good job.
Plenty of position coaches have been elevated to head coach -- our current offensive coordinator, Tony Sparano, is one example. Plus, although Herm Edwards was never a coordinator, he was the Bucs assistant head coach for several years before the Jets hired him. Do you have any evidence for your claim that the NFL forced the Jets to hire Herm, or are you just confused about the Rooney Rule?
Junc, Bradway and Herm inherited a hell of a lot of talent from the previous regime. That talent was the basis for most of the success that Bradway and Herm had. It was Curtis Martin, Chad Pennington, Richie Anderson, Laveranues Coles and Wayne Chrebet performing the heroics on the offensive side and Shaun Ellis, John Abraham, Jason Ferguson, Mo Lewis and Marvin Jones on the defensive side. When the players from the previous regime aged out or left in free agency the team collapsed. It didn't collapse to 8-8, like the Parcells collapse, it collapsed to a 4-12 disaster area. There is no way that collapse was not fully on Terry Bradway. He's the guy that let the offensive line get old. He's the guy that couldn't find a replacement for Curtis Martin or Wayne Chrebet or Richie Anderson. He's the guy that kept trading up and depleting the depth that the previous regime had supplied him with. He's the guy who kept letting valuable pieces leave the organization because he had no long-term plan to keep them. "You can't sign everybody" is not a plan. It's a surrender.
BP inherited a hell of a lot of talent when he arrived, he was in a better position talent/cap wise when he came on then Bradway when he came on. The Jets went 4-12 in 2005 b/c of INJURIES. Brooks Bollinger started most of our games, our OL was ravaged, Curtis was hurt an ineffective, Cedric Houston had almost 100 carries. In 2006 when the team was healthy again- surprise! they went 10-6 and were back in the playoffs.
Sparano started out in Dallas as a positions coach, but he was assistant head coach by the time he left. Therefore he went to Miami with his previous position having been that of assistant head coach, not that of a positions coach. You are wrong about that one. On the other hand I am aware that Edwards WAS ALSO technically an assistant head coach for the Bucs, as you said. But unlike Sparano, who actually did things that positions coaches normally do not do, like the playcalling for Dallas, I am not aware that Edwards ever was in practice more than a positions coach. In any event I would not call Sparano successful, at least so far, which was the other part of my question. I didn't actually say the NFL, specifically Tags, FORCED Woody to hire Edwards. But it is my understanding Tags recommended that to Woody, and that is what Woody did.
