The 2000 season has just ended with a loss to Oakland in the playoffs. Al Groh did a heck of a job taking on the mess created by the Parcells and BB departures--but nobody really blames him for taking a job at his Alma Mater (though if he had a do-over, would he make the same choice? I suspect not.). In the real world, the Jets hire Tony Dungy's Defensive Backs coach, who forces 3-4 personnel into a 4-3 and watches our players leave to play for the Redskins and Pats, or retire. He goes 39-41, 2-3 in the playoffs, and leaves us some killer soundbites. Drafts during his era went pretty well...but most of the picks didn't make it through the Mangini Regime, and they just became good for other teams (B.J. Askew, S. Moss, J. Vilma, E. Coleman). But there were several picks which were okay, but the guys picked after them were much better--V. Hobson was picked right before Anquan Boldin and Osi Umenyiora, and the next LB taken was Lance Briggs! Basically Herm tried to reset a team that didn't need to be reset....and then Mangini tried to reset what Herm had done. In the meantime we lost all the great players to free agency, failed coaching regimes, or retirement. So my question is this: Who should we have hired to follow Parcells/Groh? My suggestion would be Marvin Lewis. He was coming off the 2000 Ravens Super Bowl win, The Bucs almost hired him to replace Dungy, but backed out of the deal because they wanted someone offense-minded. We don't bring in Ted "I don't coach tackling" Cottrell. Imagine Rex Ryan...Lewis' D-line coach in Baltimore becoming the Jets D-coordinator with that roster. Ellis, Abraham, Farrior, Mo Lewis, Victor Green, Marvin Jones, Aaron Glenn, Ray Mickens, Jason Ferguson, Marcus Coleman, Damien Robinson, Shane Burton, and Rick Lyle on D. We don't bring in Paul "play it safe" Hackett. Instead, we keep Dan Henning, who has been Testaverde's QB coach for 2 years prior to taking up OC duties for the 2000 season. Testaverde, Pennington, C-Mart, Ritchie Anderson, Coles, Chrebet, Becht, Fabini, LaMont Jordan, Mawae, McKenzie, Randy Thomas, Sowell, and Kevin Swayne on O. Just curious as to what other scenarios you all see. I like Herm, but I really think we squandered a lot of talent due to Cottrell and Hackett and the switch to a 4-3. And when Mangini switched us back, I think we lost anything positive Herm gave the team. *There were other players on the roster, of course, these are listed just as a reminder of who we had on the roster that year.
I think that Herm was a fine hire. He definitely wore out his welcome and I wasn't sad to see him go, but I think that he did as good a job with those teams as we were going to get. It's also worth pointing out that -- if not for his last year with a hilariously bad team (Tyler Thigpen played in 14 games for chrissakes) -- Edwards would have a better career record than Lewis.
I had high hopes for Herm but he continually disappointed me. He was overwhelmed and the Jets constantly started out with a 3 game loss and it was a struggle each and every season. Plus Hackett and Cottrell were killing us. Hacketts philosophy was Martin left, Martin right. Then on 3rd and long a Martin draw play. I think Cottrell was a round peg going into a square hole. If the Jets would have run na 3-4 he would have had the defense playing better. I was glad when Herm left absolutely thrilled. Herm main problem was he was too arrogant and thought a head coaching position was his divine right. He was only a secondary coach nevera coordinator at any level and the players just tuned him out. His clock management was awful and when he hired a coach especially for clock management he was worst.
When we hired a specific "clock manager," I knew Herm was in trouble - big time. Clock management is integral and critical to game planning and play-calling, especially late in the game. It has to come from the same thought process and ought to be second nature and Priority One for a head coach. Herm soliciting or even approving of the hiring of a clock manager spoke volumes about his ability and was his ultimate undoing, IMO. Mangini was hired as a result, trusting that his clock management (and all other assets) were a rubber stamp of Bill Belichik, which they were not. Two more in a long line of failing head coaches.
I really like Herm's personality, and he could have a lot of success as a head coach if he good coordinators. Give him Rob Ryan and Jim Fassel, or some such, then let Herm handle the personalities and the media. But I strongly feel that the success he had with the Jets was based on what Parcells had put in place and the success he had in KC was based on what Vermiel had put in place. Once the teams were all his, they fell apart.
Marvin Lewis is a great answer. I think he's one of the league's great coaches, but has been mired in Bengal-stink to overcome.
disagree...while i liked herm at first he really didnt get the most out of his teams in exception of possibly 2002 which arguably shouldnt of come to that anyway.... he was also by far the worst clock manager ive ever seen and needed someone named Dick Curl to help him....
He was just saying that they retained their above average play or even got better in some cases. Askew didn't do much here but made it as a pro bowl alternate for Tampa where they had zero (healthy) noteworthy runningbacks that season.
We should have kept Groh. Parcells must have hated Woody Johnson because he told Groh to get out of town.
I think any discussion of Herm's time here is not complete without mentioning the QBs. He was here five years and started 3 QBs. He had a winning season with Testeverde but moved away from Vinny for Pennington. Herm's two losing season came when Pennington got hurt. Not to be out done, Mangini started 3 different QBs in his three years here. Rex for better or worse has started just one QB in his three years. I think for better. Because after all, you usually succeed with a QB that you can stick with and sink with the rotating QBs in and out. Herm was alright but he hurt himself first with changing then failing to make a good defense (2004 was pretty good though). Then second mistake was failing to be prepared at QB. Then the clock stuff was just awful. EDIT: I suppose to actually answer the question posed by the OP... they should have kept Belichick and let Parcells go. I mean in retrospect, Belichick and Weiss did a pretty good job there in the early part of the century.
That's definitely true about the part regarding Rex Ryan. During the Ryan era, Sanchez has started all, but one game (Sanchez had to sit out during the Tampa Bay game back in 2009, due to a minor injury that occured during the previous game against the Bills in Toronto). The main point is that Rex didn't shuffle QBs during his 1st 3 years like Herm and Mangini did, but rather he kept one QB to lead the game.
Brunell also started the garbage time game against the Bills. But in both cases, those guys were laways considered the backups.
Herm hadn't even been a coordinator before he was hired as HC. I think he inherited a lot of talent from the Parcells era (Martin, Vinny, Pennington, Chrebet, Coles, Abraham, Ellis, Mawae, Fabini, etc. etc.) and he did a marginal job with them. I think a better HC could've done more with those rosters. Belichick absolutely owned Herman.
he took over a team that had made one playoff app in the previous 9 years, had missed the previous 2 including choking away one in 2000. He led us to our 2nd ever AFC East title and playoff apps in 3 of his first 4 years. How did he nopt get the most out of his teams? It was his fault we had a dynasty team in our division? as far as who we should have hired, can we please not forget all the guys who didn't wnat the job? Groh walks out parcells declines to come back Capers declines opportunity we didn't have a heck of a lot of choices and he turned out to do a good job for us. Was he great? No bt he was a good coach and we were in playoff contention every year we had a healthy starting QB- we made the playoffs every yar we had a healthy starting QB.
Woody hired Edwards because the NFL told him to. He was unqualified for the position. I don't know the answer, but has a positions coach ever been elevated to the HC before? And been successful if so? One of the worst things that happened during Edwards's rein was he let the OL slip. THis required the Jets using two first round picks in one draft to shore up a disaster area, and lucky for hte Jets those turned out to be great picks. But allowing that decline was inexcusable. You could say Edwards was a defensive oriented coach in partial excuse, but he never put together a decent secondary, either. He was over his head the whole time he was here, and over time the players did not respect him. It's no coincidence he sucked in KC and is now out of coaching. The only thing that helped him at all was he got along well with Chad, but that ended up being a mixed bag, too. Who should they have gotten? John Gruden, of course.
"The 2000 season has just ended with a loss to Oakland in the playoffs." The 2000 season ended with the team choking away a lead against Baltimore and failing to make the playoffs. It was in 2001 and 2002 (Herm's first years as coach) that the Jets season ended witha playoff loss to Oakland. I doubt any other coach hired at that time would have carried the Jets farther. The Raiders were better and the Belichick/Brady tandem made the Patriots better. The roster eroded after 2002 as the Jets were saddled with bloated contracts on aging players like Vinny, Mo Lewis and Marvin Jones. They were not able to hold onto young talent like Farrior, Mc Kenzie and Coles and it toom time to rebuild the roster.
he didnt get the most out of his teams nor Groh get the most out of his team. the jets absolutely made the best hire given the situation, but his shortcomings really capped him as a HC...not only here, but in KC. im not bashing the jets for making the move, im simply reflecting on him as a coach...he was a great motivator, a hard worker but when it came to being a head coach he fell short in the football department. his clock management which people were screaming over, cost the jets multiple wins.
Name the games his clock mgmt directly cost us games? Was he good at it? no but neither is most of the league. Clock Mgmt didn't cost us any playoff games or any games that would have led to a higher seed.
