I dont question trading up to get a pass rusher if there was a consensus elite pass rusher in this draft (though if there was he would likely be going at #3 overall so there is that to take into account), I have just seen too many question marks over Ingram to feel really confident that he can be that guy (but I also accept that Rex et al know a lot more than anyone on this board so if he thinks he can be the guy then I am happy to go with it).
Haha, hey its all good, I'd rather some good debate than the same old agreements. The cost isnt bad at all, I'm not arguing that, I just dont see Ingram as this great pass rusher everyone else sees. When people bring up his versatility I cringe, while I love what he did at SC, do you really think he can do the same in the NFL? Do you think he can move from DE to DT to OLB to MLB? I certainly dont think so, and that's where I get hesitant in trading up for the guy. Dont get me wrong, I think he could be a good player, and its hard not to be interested in him, but I just cant say I love his skill set. He doesnt have those violent hands you want in a pass rusher, when he does rush the edge he gets locked up more than youd like to see, and doesnt even wrap up that well. When you watch his games, you notice guys like Clowney and Taylor more than you do Ingram, that just doesnt sit well with me. While I know you disagree, and many others will, I think he ends up at MLB in the future. I just dont see a pass rush artist on tape.
I dont get some of you guys, a 1st, 3rd and a couple of late round picks, thats nothing. Especially with all were are hearing with Rex's love for Ingram, do any of you really think u know more than Rex. There is a drop off, Ingram is clearly the number one 3-4 pass rusher in this draft and if the FO thinks he wont be there at #16 why would they stay there. This is there jobs why take the chance and end up with a player you dont want, if there is something that we should know with this organization is that they want to win, continually going after players they want by trading up. Revis, Harris, Sachez, Greene,Keller all players we have traded up for recently, all starters, all having a major impact on this team. So at least we have been drafting smart when we do trade up. What would you rather want for us to sit back and just trade back and stockpile picks, the draft doesn't work like that, remember there are 31 other teams trying to win to.
That might be, and probably is, it. Ever since Walker took over the AFCE Blog it's been terrible. I use to check it all the time, now I never do.
Well I'd kind of like to have an NFL caliber RT, WR, FS, ROLB and RB out of the draft at a minimum. That's not even including the fact that Slauson played badly hurt last year, there was no backup C when Mangold went down, and Brandon Moore, Bart Scott and Calvin Pace are all reaching the age when people go over the hill suddenly and dramatically. If you spend 4 picks to get the ROLB something else has to give and given the only pick the Jets would have left before the 6th round would be their 2nd rounder (where have we seen this before) I think the something might well be about half of those holes/potential emerging holes. The Jets can scapegoat Mark Sanchez all they want for the failures last season, the reality is that when he's not on the field they're still going to have to matchup a lot better than they do against the elite offenses and defenses right now.
I see both sides to it. I'm a big Ingram fan, and if the Jets want to trade those picks to grab him then the FO (and most importantly Rex) thinks Ingram is the best pass rusher to thrive in his system. Whether you want to trade up or not is fine, but I really don't see how this is an uneven trade. Moving up 6 spots and sacrificing a 3rd, 5th, and 6th; it comes to about even on the 'trade value chart' if you put much stock into that. If you don't prefer Ingram, then I ask which pass rusher do you prefer at 16?
That's correct. He's not a great player, and he doesn't show great player skills. He's a nice piece to a defense, but you don't draft nice pieces in the first round, and you absolutely don't trade up for them.
I can't fathom spending 4 picks for a guy who probably can't play 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB. I'm sorry but when was the last time a guy with arms shortern then most safeties became a good pass rusher? Can you really anchor against the run when you can't get your hands on the tackle? I get that Ingram is a great athlete but he's not what the Jets need. He really doesn't have a position in the Jets defense that works. With the first three picks I would like to get an OLB, WR and safety. I feel like those are the most immediate needs. I believe the Jets will probably sign Vernon Carey and Sparano will figure out something between Carey and Hunter will shifting Ducasse to the guard position.
Nick Perry will be a better edge rusher than Ingram and he won't cost the Jets 3 additional draft picks.
In a draft class full of a pass rushers, that is not a move Tanny should be making. Ingram might fall to us anyway, and if not there's always Upshaw/Mercilus/Coples. Someone's bound to be there, we might even get lucky enough to get DeCastro if he falls since he's only projected to go a couple picks before us. I'm just not high enough on Ingram to trade up for. Unless its for someone like T-Rich or Blackmon, we should stay put.
something tells me im gonna need to drink a 6 pack on thursday between this team drafting and the devils potentially playing a game 7
Let's go Panthers!!! But this is going to be a nailbiter of a draft and I can't wait to see what happens
ESPN likes to drink and eat all different kinds of shit so that the producers can tell the "writers" unique ways to describe what their semen tastes like.
amen brotha.the same people that want to sit tight will be bitching next year tht we haven't adressed the pass rush in forever
You're probably right, except the teams behind us know that and would jump to #15 with the Eagles trading down to get him. We'd likely need to move up a little to secure him, but not so high. Flipping with the Cardinals at #13 if Floyd is off the board makes a lot of sense for us. Flipping with the Chiefs at #11 would be better but would cost more. The Cardinals trade should only cost a 1st and 3rd.
This trade would never happen in real life but i dont have a problem with, the FO has made good picks and if they think that highly of Melvin Ingram im going to trust in their judgement.
If we made this trade, then later traded our 2nd for a 3rd and 4th I really wouldn't be able to complain with the draft. I still think theres a very solid chance Coples (more likely) or Ingram falls to us at 16, which would be better of course
If they think that highly of Ingram to give up 4 picks for him, I would have confidence Ingram will be a good player. Typically, when the Jets have traded up recently, they've had success. But I doubt Ingram is so much better than the options at 16 that it's worth giving up a 3rd rounder for. The late picks I don't care much about since we got some compensatory picks. But I don't see Ingram as an elite talent we need to trade up and get. Especially since he may slip to 16.
I can agree with all of that. Yes, they likely are better at scouting than me :grin:, so if they do trade up for him, I would have to change my view and say he may be better than i think. Since I don't think he is so especially great, I don't see them trading up when guys like Mercilus and Upshaw could be available at 16 or even Ingram himself. Personally, I feel like the Jets need all their picks. But I doubt they think the same way.
We don't need ALL of them. But we need to come away with this draft with multiple instant impact players. To have the best chance at that, we need multiple picks in the first few rounds. Trading up takes away extra chances to land good players in the early rounds.
