if we don't go OLB in the 1st

I like Mychal Kendricks later in the third or fourth round...if we go Barron in the first and Curry/Branch in the second or move up for either I would be happy..there are so many options this year and you have to wonder what we are really doing with RT...

 

With the exception of Ingram & MAYBE Coples...there isn't a dynamic 3 down pass rusher in this draft who's gonna average 12+ sacks in a year.

The good news?

In Rex's scheme, you don't need a Demarcus Ware to be successful. You just need guys w/ closing speed who can win a 1-on-1 match-up. As such, It's no surprise Maybin had success last season. Concievably, the Jets could draft another 3rd down pass rush specialist like Irvin to pair/rotate with Maybin, & that could potentially be all the Jets need.BT/Pace on 1st & second down...2nd round pick/Maybin pass rushing on 3rd down.

Meanwhile, Dont'a Hightower fits in perfectly with what the Jets need. Intangibles, Athleticism, physical style of play. He's essentially a perfect fit, and he too would improve the pass rush in specific schemes.Above all else, the Jets need to upgrade the speed/athleticism of this roster w/o sacrificing Rex's core principles of physical style of play.

 

I don't want situational players all over the defense. Rex already goes with 5 DB's too much and the Jets occasionally get caught by a smart QB going no-huddle and chewing up the clock on them in the process. (And yeah when Brady gets up to the line and then spends 15 seconds before he runs a play he chews up the clock. Watch what he's doing on those no-huddle drives, it's not snap-snap-snap.)

Pouha is very situational also because the Jets can't get enough pressure elsewhere and so his inability to push the pocket becomes a liability when the opposing team isn't running the ball.

Having a NT who cannot push the pocket and a ROLB who cannot defend the run on the field at the same time is just asking for Tom Brady to make your defense look bad and he obliged several times last year.

 

Upshaw or Hightower should be our first round pick. Both would improve the defense from day one.

I love upshaw on the strong side as the anchor of the defense against the run. Of all the 3-4 OLB/DE type's in this draft he is on the only one who comes into the NFL ready to play in this defense on all three downs. It's amazing the hate that he gets considering how good he looks on a football field. I agree that he's not your elite athlete 6 foot 4 250 pound pass rusher, but how many of those players actually become good NFL players? I can't think of any nfl 3-4 OLB who can rush the qb with speed/power/hands, play the run well at the point of attack and also drop into coverage. I love the video below of Upshaw, he's never on the floor, his technique is excellent and he's a great tackler.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2NGJD_naF0

I really like Hightower but he's definitely more of a down hill linebacker then a guy who can drop back and cover. Does adding another MLB who who doesn't do well in space a great idea? I'm not so sure. At some point as you said they have to give up some size to add speed at linebacker but not compromise and weaken their ability to stop the run. Do you view Hightower as someone who can cover running backs and tight ends in space?

Hightower and Upshaw both would improve the pass rush and stopping the run but neither adds much in the way of speed going backwards.

 

All fair points, however, if the Jets agree w/ this sentiment they either need to give up on getting a 3 down pass rusher in round 1 or..

A. Pray Coples/Ingram fall to #16
B.Trade up for Coples/Ingram(Not ideal given that neither is a sure thing & the other holes on the team)
C. Take a gamble at either #16 or trading down a few spots on Mercilus/Perry/Branch(Takeyour pick) Understanding that these players project as 3 down types..but are NOT finished products

 

Excluding guys who I think will probably be gone ike Ingram,Floyd and Richardson

My 1st round wish list would be M.Barron, D.Hightower or W.Mercilus in that order

My 2nd round wish list would be A.Branch, T.Johnson, or K.Reyes in that order

My 3rd round wish list would be B.Irvin, M.Martin or D.Wolfe in that order

For example,I'd be fine if we got

RD1.Barron RD2.Branch RD3.Wolfe

or

RD1.Hightower RD2.Branch RD3.Martin

or

RD1.Mercilus RD2. Johnson RD3.Wolfe

If somehow we could snag Trumaine Johnson in the 3rd, that would be great. I'd go Hightower,Best Pass Rusher Available and Johnson. That would be my ideal 1st 3 rounds. Say we went Hightower, Branch and Johnson. I'd love that draft. How realistic is it for Johnson to slip to us in the 3rd though?

 

Since this thread's moved to if we do go OLB in the 1st," just curious Kurt, who'd be your gamble at #16? thx

 

The other way to look at it is that the Jets need to start fixing the talent problems on the team this year not finish the process. It's going to be very hard for the Jets to resolve all the issues they have without getting very lucky in the draft and having the cap-fairy show up and give us some more relief in a way that 2012 does not strangle 2013.

I think the answer is to go find some good all-around players that fit needs the team has and will have moving forward.

This draft is swimming in linebackers. You can't tell me that the Jets can't find 2 really good ones by round 4 or so, especially if they trade back in round one to where the linebackers become a real value and get their 4th round pick back.

The draft has a number of very talented offensive linemen in it. There are likely to be appropriate value offensive linemen available at every pick the Jets make. They just need to make having a strong line a priority. It's not sexy but neither is watching the Giants win Super Bowls every few years because they understand that and failing to do so ourselves because we don't.

The draft is short of safeties. Too bad, so sad, don't reach for a safety just because the draft is short on them. We can't fix every hole this year and safety looks like one that would cost us too much in the draft to fix.

WR's on the other hand are abundant. Again, there will be an appropriate value WR on virtually every pick we make so just find one and take him.

I'd worry that the Jets will prioritize resources inappropriately and make silly trade-ups and reaches however there's no point in doing that. They're going to make fundamental mistakes if their track record is any indication of their likely actions.

A logical draft would be to take Ingram/DeCastro/Floyd on 16 or trade back a bit if none of them falls. Ingram is the only guy in this draft who is going to line up at ROLB and reliably produce sacks. Or maybe he won't if the short arms hinder him. Maybe his height is an issue for a 3-4 ROLB. Whatever, if you're looking for a pass rusher who can play 3 downs he's probably the safest take in the draft.

Coples isn't going to play ROLB. He weighs 285 lbs and he's never played OLB in college. That makes him a 4-3 DE or even DT. Unless the Jets are moving to a 4-3 or mixing a lot of 4-3 into the main defense he's not the guy we want.

DeCastro would solidify the Jets offensive line and give them the two-way link between D'Brick and Mangold or between Mangold and whoever plays RT moving forward. He's a no-brainer if Ingram isn't there.

Floyd is the kind of deep threat that would open things up underneath for Holmes. For better or worse the Jets are stuck with Holmes through 2013. It'd be better if they were stuck at the 75 catch level than at the 55 catch whiny bitch station. Then when they can dump Holmes they'll have Floyd with two years under his belt and hopefully some chemistry with whomever the Jets QB is at that point.

Assuming the Jets can't get one of the no-brainers above they should trade down to where other no-brainers become available. Courtney Upshaw, Dont'a Hightower, Jonathan Martin, Andre Branch, Mark Barron, Cordy Glenn, Peter Konz, these guys all become really good value at some point in the 1st round after you've gotten some more value out of the trade-down.

There's a ton of talent in the 2nd round also and all through the round. This is like a bargain hunter's paradise as long as you have the picks to keep buying.

 

Of the 3 mentioned, I like Mercilus.I think his problems are correctable, I think the "one year wonder" stuff is completely off base, & I think he'd transition well to the AFC East.

20.5 sacks in the big ten for a JUNIOR is crazy stuff(Gholston set a school record with 14 among a much better defense).He's long,athletic & powerful.He has the frame to add more weight. You hear his interviews, he has a good head on his shoulders.

Tannenbaum likes big 10 players..and for good reason. They're athletic, tough & can make plays in cold weather. Mercilus stays in school his senior year he's likely a top 5 pick.

 

^^ Nice heads up-thx again. I took a 2nd look at Mercilus' numbers and while he racked up 8.5 sacks in his first 6 games against the softer 1st half of the Illini schedule (and 3 against perennial Big 10 doormat Indiana), he did post 6 sacks in his final 6 games vs. tougher conference opponents and this during the 'Ron watch' (Zook) no less. I'm sold, my SEC ('Bama specific) bias notwithstanding Speaking of which, I too pray Ingram somehow falls to 16. About Coples, wonder if his burst is quick enough to edge rush at OLB (Rex did ask him to participate in LB drills in addition to DE drills at Heel's pro day-curious).
Mayock (fwiw) is skeptical of Coples' motor.

 

I'm not as schooled as some of the other posters on this board with the draft, but what is Mercilus' red flag (if any). Only knock on him I've seen is he might be a 'one yr wonder' type player. His senior yr was beyond outstanding in terms of production (17+ sacks), but he did next to nothing his first 3 yrs at Illinois. Would a 16th pick be too high for him?

 

With this approach, the problem that you'll inevitably encounter is the opposing team recognizing which Jets personnel is on the field and then exposing their weaknesses. If Peyton Manning (or any smart QB) sees BT+Pace on 1st & 2nd Down, then he'll just call a Passing play.

And then there's also the issue of a 3rd Down in which the opposing Offense's playcall won't be obvious because yardage to the marker will be in a gray area. For example, if it's 3rd & 3 and we have Maybin+rookie pass-rush specialist on the field, the D becomes susceptible to allowing a 1st Down on the ground.

Agree with this, as I think Hightower is going to be one of the better LBs and overall Defensive playmakers in the league.

 

The big problem with situational players at this point is that there are very few pass-only downs and no run-only ones.

Sione Pouha is going to be on the field for most of the passes the Jets face next season. That's because those passes will happen on neutral 1st and 2nd down situations.

 

Yep. This is what I tried to say in my previous post; you did it much more succinctly.

 

Marky, one other question supposedly concerned the overall quality of tackles he faced, but Mercilus did have 1.5 sacks against Ohio State's Mike Adams and had a sack/fumble against Wisconsin RT Oglesby while putting Wagner the other Wisc. tackle out of the game for a spell. Worth it at #16? While he looks kinda like a Pierre-Paul type physically, I also admit to a bias for 'Bama battle tested against SEC comp, meaning if Melvin Ingram doesn't fall to #16, I'd grab Courtney Upshaw and then Mercilus/Coples.

 

You're saying read when you made a comment that had absolutely nothing to do with what I just said? When did I say anything about Lewis' value? All I did was give a few comments on his game that might beneficial for the randoms around here to learn something. You're welcome.

Was I wrong on Sapp? Yes, I do enjoy the fact that you had to go back two years to find something. That said, I simply didn't know the severity of his knee injury, something he was never able to overcome. I base my evaluations on what I can see, and on the field he had all of the tools to be a very good player. Why not talk about Joe Haden, when I spent the last few months up until the draft defending him and explaining why Kyle Wilson shouldn't be the first CB drafted? No mention there? Oh... ok. That's cool.

That's really the key to this whole thing. Am I always right? No, but I can defend everything I say. I do my own research, talk to people with a ton more info than myself, and watch as much football as humanly possible. Other people just spout off on garbage then ignore anyone that calls them out on it.

BTW my comment wasn't directed at you, notice how I provided you with a legitimate response to your question. Just to note, that's a response based on a lot more than just a highlight package of him wrecking people on a special teams.

 

Sounds good, thanks for that.

Would it be fair to say the pass rushers break down like this (excluding Coples here as I've read he's more of a 4-3 DE)

Ingram
Upshaw

Then in some order,
Mercilus
Perry
Jones
McClellin (read Mayock loves this kid)

What grade would you guys put on these prospects? (mid 1st, late 1st, etc.)

 

Ingram top 15
Upshaw Late 1st/early 2nd

Mercilus top 25
Perry top 30
Jones 2nd
Mcclellin 2nd