With this in mind, How does everyone feel about the Jets targeting 2 Linebackers early? Consider a scenario like this: 1. Trade down 3-4 spots & take Hightower 2. Trade up from round 2(Using acquired picks from above referenced trade down) to late first to take Branch/Perry/Curry This basically resolves a big time issue & sets the front 7 up for long term success, with a wash in terms of compensation. -You let Hightower be a 5th linebacker/3rd down type year 1 learning behind Scott -Your OLB learns behind BT & pace year 1, and pairs up with Maybin on 3rd down/passing situations. Thoughts?
I'm fine with this as long as they get the right players. In an ideal world they get two players that fit these needs at some point in the draft. The linebacker position clearly has to be a big focus since Pace, Scott and Thomas may all be gone next season. The defense would be in a great position going foward with Wilkerson, Ellis, Harris, Revis, Wilson, Hightower and an OLB.
I absolutely think trading down, then trading up is a best case scenario for us. But the right guys gotta be there. Chicago, Pitt, NYG, and maybe even NE are all teams desperate for ILB, so gotta tread careful. If we trade down from 16, getting an ILB seems doubtful to me.
I doubt the Pats are desperate for an ILB. After Kuechly and Hightower who could be the next middle linebacker that fits the Jets scheme? The Giants love Wr's, secondary and pass rushers in the first round. They don't seem to put a lot of resources into the linebacker position. The Steelers on the other hand are the team that seems to take a middle linebacker. But the Steelers usually usually take linebackers later in the draft and bring them along very slowly.
The giants aren't drafting a wr or corner in the first. They got Rolle @ safety, and a solid DL. They could certainly go RB, and Hightowers versatile so I think they'd love him. Steelers reportedly are intrigued with him, and id be SHOCKED if they pass on him. Ravens need to find a heir to the Lewis Era, Bears a heir to the Urlacher Era. And the Pats need talent everywhere on defense. I could easily see all these teams draft Hightower. And that's my pooint, Donta and Kuechly are the only ILB I like early for us. If we don't go them, Burfict later is someone id prefer. And there's gonna be plenty of interest for the two in the first
Would anyone take a stab at this if you'd be so kind? I ask because I really don't see taking Hightower if you can't plug him in on the outside and expect him to rush the passer at least somewhat close to as well as some of these other top prospects. We don't desperately need a new starting ILB right now. We do desperately need a starting OLB. We probably won't be afforded the luxury of going 1. Hightower and then come back to OLB with our 2nd or 3rd. To me it's just a question of allocation of resources. Can we really live with Hightower out at OLB when needed? Will we be happy with him there or will he just be taking up space out there? I think that's the fundamental question as to whether Hightower would be a good first pick for us, or not.
Ingram, Upshaw, Mercilus, Perry, Branch, Lewis, Hightower, McClellin. Perry- Speed/aggressiveness/athleticism. It's stupid that he's not getting more love. Hightower- A better athlete than Upshaw, physical passrusher that can play in space. McClellin- Really good athletic upside, proven ability to play LB, can cover zones easily. Upshaw- Not a speed demon, but strong, relentless player. Branch- Weak passrusher, but athletic and knows how to drop back. Ingram- Doesn't play like an OLB, I really don't know what position to place him. Mercilus- Athletic, but I'm not sure that he knows what he's doing. Lewis- Not big enough/strong enough to play outside. Probably a big 43 LB with rush potential.
So you're rating Hightower 2nd? I mean I agree that Perry is beast and I would probably be thrilled if we just go with him after all, but nobody else is a better pure passrusher than Hightower?
Conventional OLB'S 1. Branch- I like him alot more than others do. I see perfect size, explosion,long arms & the ability to run the arc. His only downside is he's slightly stiff in the hips 2.Mercilus- Great size & athleticism but is raw & isn't very well rounded 3.. Curry- Another guy I have higher than others. Great size, plays physical, gets underneath people. Isn't elite in one area, but does everything well. Calvin pace clone 4.McClelin- A top 3 pass rusher in this draft, but is below average against the run, and that was in a 4-3. 4. Perry- Great speed & athleticism off the edge. Is he a 3 down northeast player? 5. Lewis- 3rd down edge rusher with upside. Nothing more at this stage All purpose Lb's 1. Ingram- Just a defensive weapon w/ top end athleticism, technique & intangibles.Is not conventional & will need a creative scheme for success. 2.Hightower-Smart,fast,physical and versatile. Ie he elite in any one category?I'm not sure 3. Upshaw- Stout, physical ball hawk. Size is a concern as is triangle numbers and senior bowl week performance. Is he a product of the Bama talent around him? Overall list 1.Ingram 2.Hightower 3.Branch 4.Mercilus 5. Upshaw 6.Curry 7.perry 8.McClien 9.lewis
We do need ILB sooner then later but a true pass rusher that fits in the rex ryan system is much more important right now. The difficult thing is finding someone that fits his system. They have to be big, think 265+ and be able to stop the run first and also have the ability beat a tackle once engaged. If you look at the number of these type of 3-4 OLB's that are busts every year, it's clearly a difficult position to predict how a player will do against NFL Tackles. Just saying that a guy is 6 4 260 and runs a 4.6 40 doesn't mean anything when he has to use his hands and quickness against Brick, Jake long and other starting tackles. Upshaw to me is great against the run, has great hands/power when engaged but he's not a great athlete. I wonder how he compares athletically to other bigger less athletic pass rushers like Reggie White. I'm obviously not comparing the two, but just saying that you can be a great pass rusher without being a great athlete. Ingram to me is a great athlete who will not be a great conventional pass rusher. He's a freakish athlete but having tiny arms and a small torso means that NFL tackles will have a clear advantage going up against him. I did not see him beating tackles in college. Both of these guys have their flaws and reasons they should be drafted or avoided.
Great post Kurt. Branch does seem to fit the mold of the typical 3-4 athletic OLB more then anyone else. I really don't know what is the ideal team/position for Ingram. Upshaw is the opposite of Gholston. Watching his tape in college, he plays with great technique, power, short area quickness and great hands. Take the pads off of him and he's just not a great athlete. I guess the question is can you be a good NFL player without being a great athlete.
That's not what you said. You said 34 OLB. If I was talking as a passrusher I'd probably go Perry, McClellin, then Hightower. Branch would be even lower because he won't do anything in the NFL until he grows some balls.
Sorry. Bottles of red wine and putting solid dents in fifths of cheap Scotch tends to marginally inhibit my ability to coherently string together a discussion. I thought that I had asked for pure passrusher at that whiskey-soaked moment. Of course you're correct, I now see that wasn't the case. Thanks for your opinion as to both questions. Well-appreciated.
This looks like great analysis. The only thing that I'll say is that this is a very deep draft class and I think that changes the situation somewhat dramatically. We have all this tape on all these guys, and the resources to get just about any guy that we like anywhere on the board. I totally get concerns on Upshaw. I'm not going to say I'm sour on the guy, because I'm not, but I just question whether we really can't do any better with the 16th pick than him. You can see the questions about his ability to rush the passer at the next level on his tape, and I don't want any question marks with my most valuable pick. Let me get a guy I'm totally happy with when I buy him. If he busts, he busts. Don't want to be asking myself why I didn't just take the guy who was maybe less hyped but showed more of the exact skills and attributes I was looking for. What I'm looking for is a guy like Nick Perry. You can say whatever you want about several guys on the list, but there's just no way you can shut down that kids rush all game long. He's too fast. Too explosive. Hands are too good. He's patient. He waits for his spot. Then you blink, and he's on the quarterback's shirt. That guy is going to do what we need him to. The only question in my mind is whether we might be better off going with a guy like Cordy Glenn as I believe GH suggests, and take a shot on Curry or next BPA with our 2nd rounder. I think that question is entirely dependent on pure passrush skills relative to Perry. If you can probably make due with someone else, you try to. If you don't have concerns about him...I think you just close your eyes and make the pick. If he busts I'll eat my shoe. That's the kind of pick I want.
I really like that idea. Instead of reaching for one player, they maximize what they have to acquire two players they like. The defense also gets much younger with 2 draft picks plus Wilkerson, Ellis, and Wilson who are already there.
Dang Kurt u be stealing my mojo with this. I have the patent on our first 2 picks being LB's...... Seriously I would snap one off at the TV if the jets came away with an ILB and OLB in rounds one and two. U rebuild 50 percent of ur LB unit with 2 picks. Gotta love it. Good call. Jil
This was one of the first ideas I had about the draft this offseason as well. The problem is I'm just not sure it's justified. You can't expect to get an immediate starter at RT anywhere but rd 1. I don't think I would trade a Hightower for a Cordy Glenn if you want to look at it like that. An RT/G would solve essentially all of our OL questions, present and future. I'm sorry, but a marginal improvement over Scott/Mauga/(late rd 3/4 with potential tradeup) ILB. I'm not sure if either of those scenarios are worth taking Nick Perry and just being done with it either. Perry 1st. Sanu/Jeffrey/Hill/whoever 2nd. FS third. That's a pretty awesome haul too.
You can't knock the guys idea for taking two LB's (when youth in the front 7 is as important as just about any future hole we have) because you want an OL. And then turn around and propose an idea for what to do in the first 3 rounds, without drafting any OL and decide its a great idea. It's contradictory.
I think I can. I don't even think it was contradictory. My point is that going LB/lb totally ignores OL. That's bad. Especially because adding a guy that can play RT and G will add a lot more value to our team this year and next than adding an ILB for this year and next. Both years independently and collectively. That is a very strong indictment imo. Then I went on to say...hey, you want to ignore OL? Sure, sounds great. Only problem is that I think you can ignore OL and come up with more improvement/impact by avoiding ILB in the first 3 picks again. Especially when you can add 4th/late 3rd ILB afterwards anyway. If you tried to do that with WR you'd be asking for another #3/4 WR. That's the absolute last thing in the world we need. So yeah. Don't really see how your criticism is valid.
Hightower isnt necessarily an ILB. Many scouts believe his best position is actually OLB because he can rush the passer, set the edge, react to a play well, drop into coverage in the flat... everything that is required of an OLB, and he has the size. You can never have to many passrushers; the Giants proved that this year.
