If the Jets don't believe Sanchez can be a top quality NFL starter it's time to start making other plans. This unconventional approach may be the sad reality of a lack of belief in Sanchez but it's not going to put us one step closer to a SB. To win a SB we need a QB who can make plays passing the ball against top NFL compitition over and over again. A couple of wildcat plays that adds a couple of feet to our rushing stats isn't going to get us to the next level.
Having Tim Tebow run the wildcat says absolutely nothing about Sanchez as a quarterback. When the Jets made back to back AFC championship games with Brad Smith running the wildcat nobody felt that was an indictment on Mark Sanchez. This is no different. I agree with your statement in the second paragraph. The Jets NEED Sanchez to up his game. He needs to play all season the way he's played in his playoff experience so far. But you know what... that was true before Tebow got here and it's still true today. Tebow didn't change that fact at all.
In year one and two with Sanchez nobody expected him to be a big time QB who could help us get to the playoffs and beyond. Year 3 we needed Mark to step up and he didn’t. Year 4 Mark needs to carry us much more than he was asked to in year 1 and 2. I would fully expect as Mark become a more efficient QB that Brad Smith, Tim Tebow and any other wildcat performer would see less and less playing time. There isn’t a down and distance situation in the NFL where you would prefer the Wildcat or Option to a steely eyed NFL pro with a great command of the O and the accuracy and release to exploit a good NFL D. The very fact that we are installing a new dumbed down O and doubling down on the Wildcat speaks volumes about what the Jets brass thinks of Mark Sanchez.
Rookie quarterbacks typically take five years to fully come into their own. You can't expect an upward spike but rather an upward slope when it comes to Sanchez's development and so far he's right on track. Unlike what some believe he actually improved statistically over the previous season. The only downgrade was in the team record - you can not pin that solely on Sanchez. Also - please provide a source that states where the Jets are installing a "dumbed down O". It's a different offense. If it is less complicated than what Schottenheimer ran then good for Sparano. In the clutch Sanchez needs to make plays as a thrower and he HAS proven that he can do that - he's done so repeatedly. That doesn't mean the Jets need Sanchez to air it out ala Drew Brees every game.
Sanchez in clutch situations was a decidely worse QB last year than he was in year 2. The guy was awful in spite of the stats. More was put on him and he couldn't handle it. Who said Sanchez has to air it out all the time? That doesn't mean you pull him from the game to gain an advantage. If you actually gained an advantage why would you have him playing in the first place?
Sanchez didn't have the same clutch opportunities he had in year 2. If you really want to hit him specifically on that angle then you also have to include guys like Santonio Holmes, who happens to be considered one of the most clutch players in the entire NFL. Also - you don't have to pull Sanchez out when Tebow comes in. He didn't come out when Brad Smith ran the wildcat - he shouldn't come out when Tebow runs it either. The optimal scenario is for Tebow to show he can play another role - such as H-Back... some role in which he has the ability to catch/run. If he can do this then suddenly you put a lot of pressure on defenses. Since they call their defensive personnel based on offensive personnel, having Tebow and Sanchez in the huddle together could cause a bit of pandemonium. You wouldn't know whether the Jets intend to throw, run, or go wildcat. Advantage: offense.
Unlike most people I don't prescribe to the idea that the Offensive advantage comes from fooling people. The offensive advantage comes from making the first move and creating a reaction. Fooling people is one of the most over rated concepts in pro sports while execution is highly under rated. Adding additional packages will only help us if we can flawlessly execute. Having multiple packages reduces the likelyhood of that.
Having flexibility is not the same as trying to "fool" other teams. IF Tebow can do something other than exclusively play QB his value rises tremendously. People who know Tebow keep claiming that he's a great "football player". They make that distinction because supposedly he can do things other than play quarterback. If this is true then he is a weapon that is a threat beyond the wildcat and the fact that he's in the huddle makes it very difficult to select the correct defensive package. There is nothing wrong with the Jets exploiting weaknesses in the opposing lineup.
I understand and I wasn't referring to you specifically, just some Sanchez supporters in general. The owner, FO, management and coaches OWE it to the long-awaiting Jets fans to take advantage of every opportunity that comes along (if reasonably doable). I don't feel like they owe anything to the likes of Mark Sanchez or anyone else. Sanchez will be fine and he can sniffle in his car on Friday afternoons while depositing his $68,000 weekly bank deposit slip and check. Having said that, bringing in Tebow was not an idea borne on the football operations side. I'm convinced Woody hatched that idea primarily to bolster dismal ticket sales and no doubt presented it to Football Operations and coach Ryan who probably said, "Hmmm... well... yeah, maybe this works." "Good, then get on the phone Tanny and let's do it!" Now that it's done, we're in it but good and will have to let it play out now, without regard for player feelings or even locker room disruptions. Would replacing Sanchez rock the locker room? You bet. But stranger things have happened in QB Land. Bill Belichick had no idea of replacing Bledsoe until he got knocked out of the game and then there was no looking back. I know it's a long shot, but if Sanchez self-destructs while at the same time Tebow advances as a more accurate passer and Tebow is inserted and starts winning, it could become the same thing. Long shot, I know, and not one that Sanchez supporters want to hear.
There's a very simple, clear-cut path for Mark now. He should be (and probably is as we speak) practicing his butt off. His best defense to ward off the troll under the bridge is to take himself... no FORCE HIMSELF to the next level, whatever it takes. He has the experience now and knows what is expected of him. He should also probably be in the office lobbying like crazy for a little more protection... anything they can give him this year including depth. Then he needs to get the horrible troll under the bridge out of his mind and go out and play lights out football. That's the best way to get Tebow off the roster. If he succeeds, Tebow either resigns himself to backup/gadget player or asks to be traded. If he doesn't, and starts with the Checkdown Chad Chinese Firedrill impersonations again, he'll be on the boards eating hot dogs again. May the best man win. This could go well if Sanchez succeeds. And it could also go well if Tebow succeeds. And it could also go well if both succeed in whatever uses and formations they have in mind for Tebow. But the fourth scenario is that it could go horribly and laughably wrong if both do not succeed and then the real Ringling Bros Barnum and Bailey Circus begins. "Ladies and Gentlemen and Children of All Ages. Welcome to Game 10 of the NY Jets. Tim Tebow, who replaced Mark Sanchez 3 games ago, is being replaced this afternoon by Mark Sanchez. The coin toss please...."
I understand your point, here and on the previous post, and ftr I am hardly, hardly, a Sanchez Fan. But... all things are relative, and I do think there was some logic to trying him for one more year, with the proper support. And that is NOT what the Jets are in fact doing. I also obviously agree this was mostly a marketing driven move, and not a football one. And that despite that the Jets FO has basically set the terms the team has to deal with in the coming season. But Biggs is right - despite the fact that no one can say this approach is destined absolutely to fail, we have no reason to think either that Tebow can perform better than Sanchez in the pocket or will add anything by bringing in the wildcat. Edge makes a decent point about the difference between having options as compared to fooling people. But I don't see the Jets as up to the challenge on execution. Imo it's too much to expect the Jet O to learn a new base O, new blocking schemes, add in a new #2 wr, help Sanchez improve where he needs most, which is reading D's, and at the same time incorporate plays for Tebow to any significant extent. It's also even too much more to expect Tebow to take over from Sanchez at some point and do better. I almost feel sorry for the Tebow fans. Imo he came to a bad situation for him. Biggs made the better point that comparisons to the use of Brad Smith are not helpful in year four of Sanchez's career. Back then, bringing in Smith alerted the D to expect him to do something. It gave Sanchez a breather. A fourth year Qb needs consistent focus more than a breather. It's a different situation, or should be. Well, I don't expect to be having this discussion the whole rest of the off season, since ultimately we shall see how it all works out. But right now, I think we are further from the SB than we were when this off season started.
We can go back and forth about Sanchez and Tebow forever and we won't really get anywhere. Adding Tebow to the mix just gives us all a big excuse to avoid the real topic we should be discussing, which is the degeneration of the overall talent base that began last year and appears to be continuing this off-season. Looking at the great players the Jets brought in before Sanchez hit the roster we have: 2006 - Mangold, D'Brick 2007 - Revis, Harris 2008 - Alan Faneca (since gone) 2009 - Damien Woody (since gone) 2010 - Santonio Holmes, Antonio Cromartie (both only arguably so at this point) 2011 - Nobody We're talking topflight players here, the guys who are unquestionably pro bowl caliber at the top of their game. The Jets have stopped getting those guys over the last few years. Yeah they brought in Holmes and Cromartie, but both of those guys are flawed in real ways on the field. When the Dallas Cowboys began their run in the late 80's they brought in Michael Irvin and Ken Norton in 1988, Troy Aikman, Mark Stepnoski and Tony Tolbert in 1989, Emmitt Smith in 1990, Russell Maryland, Erik Williams, Leon Lett and Alvin Harper in 1991, Darren Woodson and Kevin Smith in 1992, etc. Their personnel department was so good that 2nd round picks like Steve Wisniewski and Jimmy Smith were getting cut and going and having long and productive careers elsewhere after the fact. Where's the Michael Irvin for the Jet's QB to throw too? Where's the Emmitt Smith to keep the offense balanced? Where's the line that was so strong that the Cowboys cut an 8-time pro bowl guard in his first training camp because there wasn't room for him on the roster? After picking him in the 2nd round? The reason the Jets are mid-pack at this point is that they have been unable to continue acquiring topflight talent to go around the people they picked up from 2006 to 2009. Adding Tim Tebow doesn't resolve that, it just gives us something else to argue about as the decline continues.
This sentence and this sentence alone epitomizes the crux of the problem. Tebow aside, we've got real problems that have not been addressed. Period. I want to remain optimistic. Maybe the rabit in the hat is Tebow, but then again, there's all this other shit....
So let me get this straight. You think the Jets have consistently had 6-8 pro bowl caliber players over the last several years?! Because if that's your honest assessment, that would contradict everything you are suggesting about this regime.Most teams only have 3-4 of these players never mind 8! That assessment would put them among the very elite roster builders in the NFL. It's absolutely true by the way.
Most teams that have 6 to 8 pro bowl caliber players, and the Jets have actually had 3 or 4 - maybe 5 at the outside, don't have 3 or 4 holes that drag everything else down. That's because most teams that have a large concentration of top-end talent got it the old-fashioned way, by drafting well at every level in the draft and watching the talent accumulate through that process. The Jets have 3 pro bowl caliber players that they have drafted since 2006. Those being D'Brick, Mangold and Revis. Harris is not pro bowl caliber because he never makes the pro bowl. Nobody the Jets have drafted since 2007 is pro bowl caliber because they haven't had a player they've drafted since Darrelle Revis actually make the pro bowl. What the Jets have done recently instead of drafting pro bowl caliber players is to sign and trade for players that are pro bowl caliber but soon to decline (Brett Favre, Thomas Jones, Kris Jenkins, Alan Faneca, Damien Woody), sign and trade for good but flawed players (Calvin Pace, Donald Strickland, Santonio Holmes, Braylon Edwards, Antonio Cromartie, Bart Scott and Jim Leonhard), and sign and trade for players not even particularly good at the point in their careers (Lito Sheppard, Wayne Hunter, Derrick Mason, Trevor Pryce, etc.) The failure to turn draft picks into high-end talent and to instead substitute constant trades for other teams unwanted talent and constant signings of aging free agent talent is why the Jets are where they are now: aging with young average players poised to take the jobs of declining vets. The Jets are just doing this all wrong and as long as they continue the pattern of reaching for immediate gratification at a position (TEBOW, TEBOW, TEBOW) instead of doing the hard work involved in building a talent base that can compete with the elite teams they're going to be stuck in an endless cycle of not quite getting there before the next collapse forces a restart. I know I sound like a broken record on this but I'm 51 and have no clear expectations of making it to 61. If the next 10 years are like the last 10 years odds are I will never see the Jets win a Super Bowl. Came in a year late and then watched a string of idiots screw up the works.
2006 - Mangold, D'Brick 2007 - Revis, Harris 2008 - Alan Faneca (since gone) 2009 - Damien Woody (since gone) 2010 - Santonio Holmes, Antonio Cromartie (both only arguably so at this point) 2011 - Nobody You listed THESE players(I count 8 total, without including Brandon Moore who made the PB this year & Tony Richardson who made 2 while in green) You THEN said "We're talking topflight players here, the guys who are unquestionably pro bowl caliber at the top of their game. The Jets have stopped getting those guys over the last few years." Sorry. I'm not letting this one go. You're a great poster but it's time someone puts the trauma blanket around you.The negativity has reached overkill levels. This franchise is nowhere NEAR as bad as you portray. Relax & take a step back. The biggest measurement of this regime is the wins & loss column. This team hasn't had a losing season since 2007.And your original point before backtracking is accurate. The Jets are a talented group.
Excellent opposing points from two well-respected posters. And believe it or not, there is a degree of commonality in the exchange. 2006 - Mangold, D'Brick 2007 - Revis, Harris 2008 - Alan Faneca (since gone) 2009 - Damien Woody (since gone) 2010 - Santonio Holmes, Antonio Cromartie (both only arguably so at this point) 2011 - Nobody We only drafted 3 of these players, the rest are imports. Your point is well-taken, Kurt, but it seems like Brad's issue is that we aren't building well thru the draft. I know we haven't had a losing season since '07, but we do have to look at the trend, which is in the wrong direction obviously. Last year's 8-8 is not a "collapse" by any stretch, but nor did we even sniff the POs. And the most disturbing "trend within the trend" (if I may call it that) is that most of our 8 losses last year came at the end of the season. One could feel slightly better if we had been 3-8 at one point and then won our last 5 games... a glimmer of hope, but such is not the case (and in fact, the complete opposite). So I'm in the pessimistic camp going into this year, which I suppose is why I'm clinging to the hope that Tebow somehow blossoms into a confident, winning Tom Brady for this franchise. Because of the recent trend, I feel like that's all I have right now. I need at least the QB position to show me some real leadership and winning ways, so if it's Sanchez, fine. And if it's Tebow, fine. But give me SOMETHING in the QB position I can have confidence in!
Good points all around. I just disagree with the one thing I bolded, maybe I am misinterpreting, but the Jets were very close to the playoffs. They controlled their own destiny in Week 16 of the season at an 8-6 record. They were in the thick of things.
