The racial barrier thing is predictable, and while I find it funny, it's sad. Every player's future only being considered in the context of race. -X-
How about Karlos Dansby? Skilled, relentless passrusher with actual linebacker skills, it's not that difficult to think outside the box.
I think of Dansby as more physical than Shea. I think of McClelin as more finesse, with a sense of physicality, than a physical player with a sense of finesse, if that makes any sense.
I'd disagree, but even still that seems like a much slighter difference than a total inability in space (Reed) and elite level explosion/acceleration (Matthews).
If you're saying that they look like they fit but actually don't, I'd really question on what grounds you're saying that. Kyle Wilson might not have turned out to be a stud, but based on what are you challenging McClellin's credentials?
That he played in the Mountain West Conference and that he has risen really fast after all the evidence on the playing field was already taken into account. He has trap player written all over him. Could he be good? Of course he could but there is literally no argument for making him the 16 pick. There are 100 players in the 2012 draft who could be just as good as him and most of them were ranked higher based on their play on the field vs the opposition they faced before McLellin suddenly became it boy.
That's simply not true. Just because internet folks didn't know he was good has absolutely no bearing on what NFL teams thought of him. The NFL teams ran him through LB drills all throughout the Senior Bowl and Combine where he succeeded tremendously. If you watch his games he shows a natural ability in space, versatility to play numerous positions in both a 34 and 43, and a work ethic befitting a quality NFL player. No argument for making him the 16 pick? Watch his games and tell me that he isn't consistently the most impressive player on the field. He's a better athlete than most other potential 34 OLBs, fits the strong, edge rusher mold (the only consistent 34 OLBs are able to rush with power AND speed), and can play linebacker. This kid was rated as a late 2/early 3 rounder before the combine as a pure DE, then people realized they weren't rating him fairly because they didn't think to look for what NFL teams already had a feeling about. A kid that versatile deserves to have his value boosted, especially when he does everything else right throughout the process. I challenge anyone to compare his play vs. the best comp. they played and tell me that he doesn't stand out consistently more than guys like Branch and Mercilus... hell, even Ingram. The difference is that he knows how to make plays in a variety of ways, whereas some of these other guys are pointless if their "run around the tackle" plan goes south.
Well nobody is arguing seriously that Branch or Mercilus should go on the 16 either. Any of those guys is a huge reach at that point. McLellin shouldn't go in the 1st round. He was a 2nd/3rd round talent after his playing career at Boise State was over and that's where he belongs now. All the post-college career stuff does have a place in the overall picture. It should move people down when it's clear they're going to have trouble succeeding at the NFL level because their physical talent does not match their results against weaker opposition in college. People should only rise significantly as a result of the Senior Bowl/Combine/Pro Days when other people drop and move them up a few notches. Does this mean that players do not elevate their play when moving from college to the pro ranks now and then? Of course it doesn't. It just means that the expectation should be that their NFL performance is unlikely to exceed their college performance and actually fairly unlikely to match it in most cases. The top tier guys in the draft should be the ones with great performance at the college level and great measurables. These are the guys who were 1st rounders all along and when they finally landed in front of a stop watch/bench/cone drill nothing changed that impression. The next level mostly should be the guys who did really well in college against top tier competition and whose measurables are good enough although not as good as assumed in many cases. The last tier at the top of the draft, and really mostly these guys should be in the 2nd/3rd rounds, should be the guys who did very well against lesser competition and whose measurables are also good, in some cases great. This is where McLellin belongs. It's where Kyle Wilson belonged. Every year some guys get drafted in the late 1st to mid 2nd range who were above average in college, often against lesser competition, and whose measurables just knocked people out. Mostly these guys are going to be average in the pros to maybe above average and they're not worth that investment. Now and then the storm around their measurables completely outweighs all the evidence that they're not really that good and some sucker trades way up for them. This is where Dewayne Robertson comes in...
Disregarding the rest of the post, I completely disagree with that statement. If you asked todays NFL superstars to grade their own college tape against their current performance I would be utterly shocked to see grades anywhere near what they do at the NFL level. The guys who become the best develop after college into better players. To a lesser extent every player who makes it in the NFL develops their games further. It's complete falsehood in my opinion to say that people are what they are in college and never improve. You can disagree on a players value, or where he should go, but don't say that nobody improves after college. Also I agree with GH, just because the internet personalities of the world weren't giving McClelin props for his abilities on tape, doesn't mean NFL personalities weren't doing so behind the scenes. At the end of the day, I expect SM to be an early second round pick, but if he goes in the late first round, I would be anything but surprised.
Wow, you just turned your argument about Shea McClellin into a rant about the offseason workout system. I'll take it piece by piece, but this is an archaic way to view the draft process. - He was a 2nd/3rd rounder according to whom, exactly? You ignored this before, so I'll repeat. NFL teams knew all about his LB potential, signaled by how they used him there throughout the Senior Bowl week, when they had a chance to get their hands on him and have him do whatever they wanted. Internet draft heroes didn't put any stock into his LB ability so they underrated him, whereas NFL teams used the workouts to see just how good he was in space (which is very good). Workouts are used to PROVE things. If something popped up that was inconsistent, then you're right, they're meaningless. If a kid that looks slow on tape runs a 4.35 then there will be a lot of questions that pop up, but if it means another look at the tape to see WHY he doesn't play to the 4.35 then it's a good thing. Stephen Hill's time surprised people, but many wrote him off quickly as a workout wonder. Watching tape he looks like a more natural WR than a lot of the guys still rated above him. INTERNET scouts blew him off because of the offense he was in (just like D Thomas early on), but NFL teams certainly did not. - Which brings me to the next point, why these offseason workouts are important. What can the NFL teams see on tape? What the college coaches needed them to do. What can NFL teams/scouts see during the offseason? Everything else. Practice habits, how they conduct themselves in interviews, raw skills that were underdeveloped/underutilized at the college level. I'm sure you're limiting your thoughts of the offseason schedule to just 40 yard dashes, when in reality it's the position specific drills themselves with position coaches watching that hold much more weight. - nyjetsrule already commented on this, but the statement that players are going to exceed their collegiate play in the NFL is crazy. If that were the case then the draft itself would be completely different, and anything after the first round or so would be pointless. I think connected with this statement you also said that all non-BCS players shouldn't be drafted any higher than 2nd-3rd round? Go ask Cordy Glenn whether he thinks McClellin can hang with the big boys. Your generalities are way too strong, and you seem to be ignoring the facts that go along with everything related to the draft. I would really consider trying to get a better understanding of the process rather than to make such strong comments that appear misinformed. Also, I should point out that you have Michael Brockers #9 and Dontari Poe #14 in your own posted top 32s, neither of which makes ANY SENSE considering the content of your post. According to what you just said Poe should be a 3rd rounder.
Brockers is huge and coming out as a sophomore. That makes him very hard to evaluate because there wasn't enough evidence on the field to make a hard and fast determination of his value after his sophomore season. He's the kind of player that you'd expect to grow to be a better player at the pro level than he was in college because he's so young, and unlike QB, MLB or S the mental part of the position that he plays is less important than his ability to physically dominate the people opposite him. He really should have stayed in school for another season but he's going to go up high for the 6'6" 306 lbs and holding his own at LSU which is a major program at the age of 20 factor. Dontari Poe is ranked where he is in my ranking mainly because he's got the ability to play anywhere on the front of a 3-4 alignment. He would be ranked lower by quite a bit if he was locked in to NT or DE. He was an inconsistent player at Memphis looking completely dominant at times and very average at others. If you look at the film on him you see only highlights because he doesn't have a lot of every play reels available. It's easy to over-rate him but if he winds up in a good system with good coaching he has the potential to be a Haloti Ngata type talent and that's why he's where he is at the moment. Obviously if he *was* Haloti Ngata he'd rank quite a bit higher than 14 in this draft. Even so 6'5" 350 with his other measureables makes him absolutely worth a mid 1st. There are only so many guys on the planet with that size and ability and finding them is one of the things that every team is trying to do. Back to the point on the post-career stuff. The idea that a guy who is the same size as his competitors should get moved up just because he worked out well is ridiculous on the face of it. If his competitors drop because their measurables turn out not to match the performance they put out on the field (Courtney Upshaw?) and create questions about how they will fare against NFL players and he leapfrogs them as they are dropping that's one thing. But if he just gets moved straight up because he worked out well? That's a failure in the system. The NFL doesn't play in skivvies and they shouldn't be measuring in skivvies either. That's a systemic fault.
So... you do realize that you just contradicted yourself throughout that post right? You can't say Brockers is too young to make a big impact when he's three years out of high school just like everyone else in the draft. Fletcher Cox had a big impact and he's 8 days older on a much worse DLine in the same conference. It makes all the sense in the world that you'd rate Cox top ten (even though I wouldn't), but none with Brockers. You can't say that the on the field product matters most of all, and then in turn make excuses for Poe. Why is Poe rated so high by people? Because of what he did in his "skivvies". Because he looks the part, even if he doesn't play like it. "But if he just gets moved straight up because he worked out well? That's a failure in the system. The NFL doesn't play in skivvies and they shouldn't be measuring in skivvies either. That's a systemic fault." Poe was a straight up average player, but because he's 6'5, 350 he's worth that pick? Because Brockers is 6'6 he gets more credit than other guys? If we're going on PLAY ON THE FIELD neither of these guys are ahead of Worthy, Still, Cox, and probably even guys like Kendell Reyes and Mike Martin. What you are saying is that POTENTIAL (ie the belief that players will one day be better than they were at the college level) is a valuable part of the evaluation process. You even yourself rate guys higher because of what they did in workouts, or by the idea that they will one day be better than they ever showed in college. THEN you say that players should not be raised in value because of potential/what they do in workouts... It doesn't work. And to repeat again, judgments on players that appear en masse on the internet are just that, opinions of people on the internet. The NFL teams knew McClellin could play LB way before we did, and they proved that.
Mayock confirmed today McClellin is still flying up team draftboards. Mayock Quotes: "Could go as high as #18". "I like him better than Mercilus". "A great athlete similar to Ingram" Just something to think about.
That irritates me. I would like to see him staying in the late 20's so that unless a guy we love lands in our lap, we could conceivably trade back and acquire him. On the Mercilus comment, I think they play 2 different positions in the pros, so I don't like that a whole lot. Mercilus is going to be a very good 4-3 DE, and McClelin is an infinitely better fit standing up in a 3-4.
