Didn't we talk about this coddling bit just last week? You can think Sanchez was coddled at the same time you can think he might improve. I don't see any inconsistencies in what Woody has said.
Those things and also have an ownership that does not double as the master of ceremonies at the circus.
Why do you refer to the Cowboys and Eagles as if they're some fierce elite competitors? The Golden Days are gone...they're only "big" in name. They're ok. Not great. And neither was tougher than Miami turned out to be last year in the latter part of the season. Washington sucked just as much as the Bills. That division isn't what it used to be. It's not any more fierce than any of the other NFC divisions, and certainly not more so than the NFC North. They're just more hyped up by the media, but not in reality. Just cause ESPN wants to create the perception based on the teams history and market size doesn't mean they're actually representing the image that's being credited to them. This coming year you have a Mike Vick who throws enough interceptions to practically guarantee any divisional rival a couple of wins. You got a rookie QB coming out of college in RGIII. And you have Tony Romo... What exactly do the Giants have to fear? They should be competing for the 1st or 2nd seed every season not hanging by a thread to make the playoffs.
Dude, during that "latter part of the season" stretch BOTH Philly and Dallas beat Miami (Miami home vs Eagles, away vs Cowboys). Miami also went W/L/W/L/W/L/W to end the season. They only had one winning streak and that was in the middle of the season (weeks 9 through 11). Both the Cowboys and Eagles were in the playoff hunt with two games left in the season. The NFC East is arguably the toughest division in football.
There's not a ton to write about. The draft is still a few weeks away, there's little news on the free agency front for the Jets, so you get articles like "[Random ex-player] says [mildly controversial statement] stories because they're easy to do. Especially in New York where there are so many writers.
So what? They're on the same freaking level. And Miami went through a QB and coach change mid-season. The media hypes them up as the toughest division in football but they're not. They're not toughter than the NFC North and probably not even the South right now. While you can say the West had teams neck in neck last year, both the North and South sent wildcard teams to the playoffs last year. The NFC North will continue to be a tough division, and the NFC South will be even more competitive this year with Carolina past their rookie season. The NFC East is the most televized NFC division in football. But that's all it is. Fluff and hype. They have the largest market and fan base but that doesn't translate to actual team strength.
How are they on the same level? Both Dallas and Philly finished 8-8 and both beat a Miami team that finished 6-10 while Miami was supposedly playing their best football. What metrics are you using? You're just asserting a baseless opinion. The Jets and Patriots are on the same freaking level. The Colts and the Giants are on the same freaking level. The Packers and the Vanderbilt Commodores are on the same freaking level.
Which part of Miami going through a coaching change and QB change did you not get? But Moore finished 6-6. I still don't see how the West are a tougher division than the North or even the South right now. I disagree. It's a hyped up division. THE most hyped up division in football. By far. No other division gets as much coverage. Well maybe now with Tebow in NY the AFC East can compete but the NFC West have dominated TV coverage since we introduced the 4 division conference. And I don't agree with your comparisons at all. The Bucs, Washington and Colts were basically on the same level last year. Wasington finished 28th in efficiency and Colts 29th. Not a HUGE difference there. Bucaneers at 26th. Carolina beat all of them thanks to their inefficiency and Carolina was a very inefficient team last year themselves. It was like watching to see who's going to make the biggest mistakes first. Very much like the Eagles who were almost a mirror image of Carolina, and that's with Carolina sporting a rookie QB. Very explosive, high octane, but incredibly inefficient offense that beats itself. Lots of yards, lots of bad mistakes and interceptions. Cowboys were basically on the same level as Chicago but worse than Atlanta. Worse than Detroit. So what's so tough about the division? If you're just going off of record, that's like saying the AFC West is the toughest division in football because 3 of them finished 8-8 and one team 7-9. The Giants have no excuse for not finishing 12-4 this year. They have more talent than anyone else in their division and the most stability. If the Saints and Green Bay can do it in their divisions so should they. That is if they ever want to be considered a consistent elite winning team. Oh yeah, and the Cowboys and Redskins are now being penalized on the salary cap end. With a 36 million hit for the Redskins, RG3 is about all they're going to have. The league paved the way for them to make the playoffs again.
If Toomer had his way, Eli would have been long gone as a Giant. Don't listen to this hack. As Shockey said, he sold his soul for the media so Toomer is now going to be talking out of his ass for sake of doing it.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-s...emy-shockey-twitter-slap-fight-153835319.html Jeremy Shockey knows Amani sucks too.
I'm not going to talk about which division is better because I just threw out there that the NFC East is a good division. If it isn't, fine. Let's get back to talking about why you made such a ridiculous far-fetched false comment on Miami being good. Can you explain how telling me you telling me "Which part of Miami going through a coaching change and QB change did you not get? But Moore finished 6-6." justifies and supports your previous statements of: By saying they're "on the same level" implies either that, despite Miami's coaching and QB problems Miami = Dallas = Philly. By saying "Which part of Miami going through a coaching change and QB change did you not get?" You're implying there that if it WEREN'T for Miami's QB and coaching situation then they would have surely beaten Dallas and Philly. However, you right after that stated "Moore finished 6-6 as a starter". Here, you seem to imply that Matt Moore was the reason the Dolphins improved (6-6 vs 0-4 for Henne) despite just the sentence before having argued that Miami won IN SPITE of Moore. Furthermore, you can't evaluate Miami on the hypothetical facts of "if they had this" or "if they had a better coach" or "if Reggie Bush was 100% healthy"; because, you know what, "if Holmes wasn't a dick", and "if Sanchez put up MVP-type numbers", "if Jim Leonhard stayed healthy", "if Schotty weren't the O-Coordinator" and "if Jenkins never hurt his knee" the Jets would be in a much better position right now. You have to judge Miami purely at face value in order to determine how talented of a football team they are/were at a particular point or during a stretch of games. I know it's difficult to illustrate to an extremely illogical person how extremely illogical they are being, but I'm up for the challenge. Once you further explain your defense of Miami's "abilities" as a team or concede that you were incorrect we'll more forward to talking about Miami's QB situation.
Because common sense dictates you're not going to look at Miami going into 2012 and consider how they looked prior to their QB and coaching change. Coaching/QB change mid-season comes with huge changes. And I didn't say nor implied they won in spite of Moore. That's just what you took out of it. I implied that they won in spite of mid-season changes. Moore's a very solid QB, but anytime you plug in a QB mid-season and have a coaching change, you're not going to be at the top of your game. He's not as prepared as he's going to be going into this season, through training camp, etc. It rarely results in success and cohesion. By the way, the more I read your replies the more you sound like someone trying to portray the image of being logical constantly repeating two words like a broken record. "Illogical" and "fallacy". It takes more than throwing those two words at other people to prove you have any and they have none. You seem to apply them any time you disagree with something, or don't fully grasp a complete thought. Good logic doesn't begin nor end with simple black and white, X>Y, statements. It's a succession of multiple points stringed together. You seem to have trouble deciphering a more complex string of though patterns that don't break down into A or B category. The most I can do for you is use italics. However chances are if you you're going to continue to look for signs of contradictions, you're going to find them and if that's as far as you can get, and it trips you up so much you can't see beyond that, there's really little anyone can do. If on the other hand, your main purpose is to spin and get whatever statements suits your agenda, then there's even less of a chance anyone will engage you....logically. Those smart enough to see through it are most likely going to give you a smart ass reply... For example, every time I read one of your posts I can either try to understand what you're saying or try my best not to. It's not hard for me to tell you often choose the lazy approach. PS: And despite all of those things, Miami finished 13th in offensive yards per point(scoring efficiency) and 6th in defensive yards per point overall for the season. Dallas, Washington or the Eagles are nowhere near them, especially on both sides of the ball like they are. Right now I'd say they're an early favorite for at least a wildcard spot come 2012 in the AFC. The Jets have their work cut out for them.
I worded it poorly. I was trying to state Woody was been very straight forward and spot on with analysis. He hasn't played a side like most of the media. It's a nice, refreshing change. Call em like you see em. Also early favorites for the WC have to be the loser of the SD/DEN race and the losers of BAL/PIT/CIN race followed by the Jets, Titans, and Dolphins in the next tier below.
i hear you re: Giants thing but dont agree about Toomer's abilities on radio- he is articulate and comes across well i think
I keep glancing at the title for this thread and keep reading it as "Tumor is Back" Was about to climb to the top of a mountain and cry HORNET.
Wrote a response and then lost it; I'll re-write it. Just wanted to post before I do that your posts were unclear and implied you were arguing about 2011 and not 2012; my bad.
in the past 43 yrs the jets are 0-4 in afc title games in the past 25 yrs the giants are 5-0 in nfc title games and 4-1 in the sb there is really no comparison. and thats not counting division titles
