how does a D that was a dropped TD pass from losing or a missed chip shot FG from OT carry or bail out an O?
displacedfan said it perfectly: If you give a team mulitiple opportunities at some point they will move the ball. Especially a team that has some weapons like the Ravens have. The play by Moore to end the game and force the FG try was a great play. Brady played terrible in the last 2 AFCCG's he played in and was lucky to have the defense bail them out.
There's no rule that if given multiple opportunities a D has to collapse. It's nto an isolated incident, no matter how good or bad they were, no matter the ranking, no matter the players they collapse when it matters most. SB XXXVI: blow 14 pt 4th qtr lead, record blown lead SB XXXVIII: allow 19 4th qtr pts, a record # of 4th qtr pts allowed by a winning team in a SB SB XLII: allow 3 pts throuhg 3 qtrs. after 12 play, 80 yd TD drive to take a 14-10 lead w/ a little less than 3 mins to play the D allows 12 play, 83 yd TD drive to lose game SB XLVI: allow 9 play, 88 yd TD drive to lose game in final minutes. we also have the '06 title game where they allowed 17 4th qtr points and 32 2nd half points to blow big lead. Unfortunately in the 2 SB losses and the title game loss Brady wasn't given enough time to rescue his choking D like the rest of the times it happened.
There’s no rule that says the offense has to choke in end game situations. It’s funny how you will argue that Peyton doesn’t get it done in end game situations (05 AFC Div vs. Pit; 08 AFC WC vs. SD; 10 AFC WC vs. NYJ) and will defend the IND defense for allowing GW or GT scores (08 SD ; 10 NYJ) saying if Manning had made this pass or made this play they would have won – but in the same situation will defend Brady and blame the defense. It’s comical. Putting perspective on some of these: SB 36 – Scored or set up all 17 points prior to the final drive. St. Louis had one of the greatest offenses in NFL history. At some point the expectation is that they will turn it on. They did when the Patriots defense was worn out. The Patriots DO NOT win that game w/o that defense. In fact if the defense doesn’t play the game the way they did the Pats get blown out worse than their 45-10 SB XX game. SB 38 – The D had a rough game, but the Panthers Offense made some great plays. SB 42 – Offense under-performed all game long. Even so, the Giants needed two miracle plays (Asante’s missed INT & Tyree’s play) to set up for the GW TD. The loss is on the offense for SEVERLY under-performing. SB 46 –The offense under-performed in this game too. Despite playing well at times Brady missed on a wide open Welker and missed on a wide open Branch that would have likely sealed the game. Maybe if Brady stepped up his game during the other 59 minutes he wouldn’t have needed a last minute comeback to win.
Thanks for correcting that. Don't forget when Warner cut the lead to 17-10 the Pats went 3 and out on their next possession. The rams then punted. The Pats then went 3 and out again and the Rams got the ball on their own 45 yard line.
absolutely, the D played great for 3 qtrs but needing to play well for one more qtr to guarantee a championship they choked and became the first D to blow a lead of 14 pts in the 4th qtr of a SB. Name the late game collapse Indy's Ds have had in postseason? if they did what NE's Ds have done I would criticize them more. Is allowing a FG to the Jets a collapse? The Jets were near midfield, the Giants inside their 20 both times. Was allowing a FG to SD a collapse? SD started in Indy territory, that's different than inside your own 20, right? Where are the situations the same? Name me all the playoff games Manning left the field w/ a lead and the D had 80+ yds to work w/? name me all the late drives by manning to take the lead only to watch the D blow it? please provide these examples. SB XXXVI: it's great they score or set up all scores in first 17 pts but they were up 17-3 in the 4th and became the first team in SB history to blow a `14 pt 4th qtr lead. B/c they played great for 3qtrs doesn't mean they could suck in the last qtr. SB XXXVIII: Obviously it was the greatness of the Jake Delhomme led Panthers. SB XLII: O did underperform but left the field after 80 yd TD drive to take 4 pt lead w/ under 3 mins to play. SB XLVI: O did underperform, Welker missed routine catch that could have sealed but O left game w/ a lead and D had Giants in shadow of their GL. Brady could have played better w/o a doubt, he could have made those last drives meaningless but they were meaningful and he left w/ a lead, it's not like he threw a game ending INT for TD to blow a SB(but we know that was Wayne's fault, right?)
Just to clarify: NE's D blew a 14 pt 4th qtr lead, right? I don't care if the O didn't gain a yard in the 4th qtr, the D still has to stop the opponent w/ a 14 pt lead in the 4th. After the first 3 and out where the Pats pinned SL at their 7 the NE D allowed SL to change FP getting it back out to midfield so SL got it at their 45 on the nxt possession and went 3 plays for the TD.
How can you not care what the offense did? The offense and defense work hand in hand. New England doesn't score their points unless the defense gets turnovers. The defense got the turnovers, the offense capitalize. The offense can directly lead to how a defense is perceived and vice versa. So yes the defense blew a 14 point lead, but the offense didn't help by only putting up 6 points in the second half. The NE D allowed SL to change field position and so did the offense. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/super/superbowl-xxxvi.htm This is the play by play. Yes the defense blew a 14 point lead, if you are putting all that on the defense, that's crazy. The offense didn't help. They go hand in hand. How is a defense playing great for 4 quarters minus two drives not get credit but an offense doing nothing except for 3 drives (2 defensively aided) get credit for the win. They won as a team, but failure to see the defense played much better than the offense is ridiculous to me.
Then why aren’t you blaming Brady for the same things you blame Manning for? Brady had the opportunity to put away the SB and didn’t get the job done. Brady had a chance to end the AFCCG and didn’t get it done; only going to the SB because of the Pats D making the stop and forcing a FGA. You have an agenda in these debates. If Brady had an unblocked blitzer come off the edge on 3rd and 4 and threw an incomplete pass allowing SD to get the ball back and tie the game w/ a FG you would be blaming the TE for not making the block and the defense for not stopping the SD offense. SB 36 – they played one of the GREATEST offenses in NFL HISTORY and were worn out in the 4th Qtr. Maybe if Brady could have gotten a few first downs it would have given the defense a moment to rest and they would have been able to make a stop. Let’s get real here. They were playing a top offense that they had shut down all game long. The Pats offense were giving their defense NOTHING and at some point the Rams offense were going to start moving the ball. SB – 38 – Obviously you didn’t watch the game. Delhomme made some great plays in that game. You should find a copy of it and watch it. Delhomme did play great in SB 38. SB 42 – The O under-performed and were the reason they lost. SB 46 – There was nothing routine about that catch for Welker. Only Brady apologists would make that excuse. The ball was behind Welker who had to make an incredibly difficult adjustment to the ball. It was the same pass play that he didn’t make earlier in the season. Some routine play.
You should have been here last year when he blamed the defense for the opening loss to the Ravens. The defense allowed TEN (10) points in the game.
The 10-9 game?! I made my rounds arguing Peyton vs Brady with Junc which is legitimate debate, but when we touched upon defenses the same excuses broke out for only Brady but not Manning.
when you have a 14 pt lead in the 4th qtr as long as the O isn't turning it over and putting the opponent in great FP the D should be able to hold. FOURTEEN point 4th qtr lead, first time in SB history. There's no way around that. 3 qtrs, not 4th qtr minus 2 drives. If they allowed 14 pts per qtr they would allow 56 pts, they didn't play well minus the 2 drives. They had a terrible 4th qtr and would have lost the game if it went to OT and they lost the toss. I have given Brady some blame, he certainly could have done more in both SB losses but he left the game late w/ a lead and had the opponent pinned deep in their territory. You may want to look in the mirror w/ the agenda comment, anyone reading through these posts could see it. you wouldn't even give Brady credit for the Car SB, instead choosing to credit/blame the 2 kickers. Manning took a sack at his 1 to set up the 8-8 Chargers FG to tie it and send it to OT. SD started in NE territory not inside their own 20 like the Giants. That great offense in 36 also only scored 23 in their SB 2 years earlier, they had THREE pts entering the 4th. They blew a 14 pt lead- first and only time in SB history. I did watch the game, Delhomme played well against a choking defense. Yoy talk about agendas and you are doing everything you can to discredit Brady, now pumping up jake Delhomme to protect the Pats D. In 42, The O had an 80 yd drive ending w/ a TD and a 4 pt lead, the D then allowed a long TD drive to lose it. The D blew it...AGAIN In 46, Welker has to make that catch. Not every throw will be perfect, it is a cacth a pro has to make and Welker is known for his hands(despite his numerous drops), that is a catch that needs to be made. pretend the names are Peyton manning and Reggie Wayne then give me your real opinion. Our D was great, allowing Flacco and the Bal O to hold the ball for nearly 40 minutes and allowing 3rd and long conversions of: 3rd and 9 3rd and 13 3rd and 28 3rd and 9 3rd and 9 3rd and 10 3rd and 7 3rd and 10 3rd and 10 What a defensive performance! It's sad when a poster and fan as good as you needs to drudge up another debate to try to deflect from not having any points in this one.
show me the postseason games where Manning led a late score only to watch the Colts D blow it? show me the collapses in postseason by the Colts D? I'm begging you, please show me? Brady's D's have routiniely collapsed, manning's D's have not.
I'll get back to you later, but I wanted to point out an untruth from your post. I have given Brady credit for the game he played against the Panthers, but not that last drive. He was given great field position by the idiotic kickoff out of bounds by Kasay and still needed a FG to win.
again, in a similar(yet better) spot for Peyton against Pitt at home in the div rd he failed. He got a break w/ great FP and took advantage against Carolina, he and the O kept them in that game as the D was being roasted all 4th qtr long. Pats D's in SBs 2001-2011: Pts allowed: 1st qtr: 13 2nd qtr: 17 3rd qtr: 13 4th qtr: 60 I think this pretty much sums everything up
They average around 20 points per game. Pats 0 in SB's 2001-2011 Pts gotten: 1st qtr: 0 2nd qtr: 45 3rd qtr: 17 4th qtr: 38 Pats offense averages just 20 points per game. Which unit is underperforming again? EDIT: fixing 4th quarter stats and ppg
