...and you can make a similar list for just about every NFL team. Sometimes teams pass on guys that are picked later and good! Wow, really? Thats some amazing inset you have there. You should do a press conference about this major discovery of yours.
More importantly, who cares? Admitting a mistake doesn't make your football team better. Nobody nails the draft every single year with no early busts. It's the nature of the beast. But if we do a press conference, I'm cool with that
Good organizations cut ties when the player has demonstrated that they don't belong on the roster. We went through hell last year on offense because the RT was a turnstile. If Ducasse had anything to show the Jets that was the time to do it. He's a waste of a roster space right now and if his presence deludes the Jets into thinking they don't need to draft somebody to play RT this year then he's a destructive waste of space.
So, because the Jets got through 04, does that mean 07 with Clarke and Bender did not happen? As far as Kendall is concerned, the Jets totally lucked out there when he became available. Ftr I don't rule out the Jets may make a move at RT at any point before opening day, but it's tough since you certainly can't count on someone like Pete Kendall suddenly appearing. As for Hunter, he's being paid starter money and at this point is superior to VD. That being the case, I don't see how you can say he's not in the equation.
Not admitting a mistake means you take longer to correct it. That's why good teams move on when they realize they've made a mistake. Mediocre teams get caught in the question of whether or not it was a mistake until there is no doubt and lose valuable time in the process.
I for the most part agree with your position here, in fact 99% of it. He's a waste, he could not get playing time of significance in his second year as a second round pick when he was backing up the worst starter on the team. He in other words was not even fulfilling the minimum requirements regarding a backup. And it hurt the team big time. The only teensy part I disagree with is I don't think they are deluded as to how bad VD is. What is going on instead is a failure to publicly admit their mistake in drafting him, along with the point you made about how each draft pick becomes so important because too many are traded away. They probably are praying VD steps up this year, but the odds of that are really poor. Coupled with Hunter's poor play last year, and their failure to even TRY to redo Hunter's contract, are inexcusable. This whole shit storm can only be understood as bad management. The only possible way out now is for them to go into camp, say VD has shown no improvement, and make some move like a trade to get a JAG tackle in. Counting on Hunter would be crazy, although by all appearancese that is exactly what they seem to be doing. I'm with you 99% here, bud. Heh.
What better way to exemplify a winning organization than to dump all players who don't mature and develop instantly upon being drafted? This fan base b/c more and more delusional every single day. It's aboslutely pathetic and shameful
07 most definitely did happen. The Jets chose the wrong time to pick a fight w/ their union rep,Pete Kendall. They severely overestimated Clarke's ability & Bender was never given a fair shake despite having a good TC(Trust me I was there) b/c He had acouple shaky preseason performances. Hell I'll even add more fuel to your fire by mentioning 05 when the Jets let Kareem mckenzie walk in favor of Adrian Jones. Jones short arms & height made him a better fit at guard..but the Jets did not want to pay Mckenzie big money & couldn't get over Jones good feet. This ended w/ Mckenzie going to the giants and being a mainstay at RT for them while winning 2 rings, & Jones ending his career on a high note as an above average guard for the Chiefs. The jets front office has not been perfect when it comes to O-line decisions. The decisions they HAVE made at the spot have tended to make or break Jet sseasons. So I certainly see your point. All I'm saying is..Despite all the negative press & ongoing criticism, Ducasse has shown immense potential to be a very good RT. Whether you like it or not, he was drafted as a long term high ceiling guy. Woody retired a year early & Hunter proved to be what he has always been. A "hold the fort" swing tackle that lacks the consistency to be a full time starter. What that caused is Ducasse's role on this team to be questioned. But his role all along has been circled for an impact somewhere between year 2 or year 3.His development hit an additional hurdle with the shortened offseason in 2011. Given his potential, the 2nd round investment & the number of free agent tackles that will be available come August..it only makes sense to see how far he's come with his development at this point. If he steps up and can start at RT, it is a huge slam dunk for this FO. If he doesn't step up...sure they cut their losses September 1 and sometime in August bring in their new RT via free agency.
I referred to the Clarke Bender situation because it was fairly recent, and I think has some parallels to today. I will even go so far as to say that Hunter, as bad as he is, is better than either of them, so in that respect it is not a parallel situation. I agree with your assessment on 05. But the part about today that is similar to the Clarke Bender situation is a combination of some factors that are somewhat similar. While Kendall's complaining about an offer he claims was not followed up on, which the FO was not prepared to acknowledge (I totally believed Kendall's version, btw - while he was stupid in hindsight not to have gotten his deal in writing, no way he makes the stink he did if his story wasn't true, and Tanny never, never directly refuted Kendall) being in error is different from VD's situation, here the error was counting last year on Hunter and VD to cover for Woody's departure, and of course before that drafting VD. And that's the other part, the idea that if you have two guys who might step up, one assuredly will. Not so. But rest assured it is not only the VD part of this that is objectinable. It is also the combination with Hunter. How they let Hunter's contract go guaranteed without trying to change it is something else that really bothers me about the way the FO has been doing, and not doing, this off season.
I've no idea how the whole MetLife stadium wouldn't explode if both Big Blocker and Bradway ended up in the stadium at the same time. I feel like these two guys would want to cut Aaron Rodgers if he was our Qb because he takes away the opportunity to run the ball 40 times a game. Truly painful to read your opinions together.
I'm very glad that you chose to use those exact words to pin the crux of your arguments on your consistent and often laughable criticism of Mike Tannenbaum's abilities as a GM. It's actually quite amusing to me because I would choose those exact words to pin as the crux of my argument. That you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about in judging the strength of Mike Tannenbaum's (and in all likelihood any other GM that has had anything even approaching marginal success) "draft strategy" The point is that the second you talk about STRATEGY in something as complicated as the NFL draft, you need a very firm understanding of game theory to even have a clue how to assess a given team's OVERALL DRAFTING STRATEGY. By very strong I mean most likely having at least one degree in a math related field. Or at the very least having a lot of experience dealing with heavily strategic GAMES (like chess, poker, or the stock market) and having spent a ton of time trying to analyze your decision making process in this area. If none of these things are true, you damn well better have taken some in depth lessons with a highly regarded game theory teacher otherwise you're going to be someone that is totally clueless that thinks they aren't. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm betting you don't even come close to meeting any of these criteria. Your posts show that you don't really understand anything about optimal game theory strategy even as a concept, let alone show any knowledge of the nuances and complicated analysis required to JUDGE SOMEONE ELSE'S understanding of optimal game strategy. Now I know your first old man inclination is going to be to mumble curses about this "geeky bullshit" as you're reading this, but unfortunately this geeky bullshit is the ONLY THING that can possible place an accurate value system on your claim that Tanny uses a "flawed drafting strategy." I'm sure you're also thinking something like "fuck that I know how to assess a player from a draft and thereby an overall draft and thereby an overall draft strategy." The bad news is that doesn't mean shit here. Without an accurate draft strategy value system it's impossible to judge the different outcomes that a different strategy would have likely led to in terms of performance. Without that you're just talking out of your ass entirely. Without game theory you can't possibly compare those different outcomes in quantifiable terms. So you have no idea what's flawed and what isn't. I feel like this subject is way too in depth and complicated to possibly explain thoroughly to you or other tgg members in a post or even many posts on here. I'll try to give you a basic idea of why you can't possibly know what the fuck you're talking about, then I'm going to stop because this discussion will never end and it's not going to go anywhere in so doing. Assessing the value of a draft strategy in something like the NFL draft is ABSURDLY ABDSURDLY ABSURDLY complicated. You're talking about assessing the possibilities of a game that has 30+ players that can all make a move on EVERY FUCKING TURN and can all MAKE WHATEVER DEAL THEY FUCKING DREAM UP with anybody on ANY TURN. EVERY TURN. Do you have any clue at all how many permutations that creates? Trillions. Quillions. Saskatchetillions. Your brain can't even start to get around it. Nobody's can. To make a statement like "trading up consistently is a horrible strategy" is so blatantly clueless and misguided in and of itself that it just shows your opinion in these matters isn't worth the paper you didn't type your criticisms on. What the hell are you talking about? What if you trade up because you get really good value on your tradeup everytime and get really awesome players? YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT TANNY'S DRAFT STRATEGY IS GOING TO BE OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS. You don't know if the "strategy" that you think Tanny employs is even his strategy at all. It might just have been his strategy for the first few years in office because he thought it was better for the team at that time. Then he's going to slowly evolve his drafting strategy as the team and their progress evolves. Your argument is so flawed that it isn't even an argument at all. It's just the sounds of an old guy griping away about something that is totally out of his depth. If you held Tanny's job...only for the draft even, you'd surely be fired as GM in less time than Tanny has been tenured. Guaranteed. Maybe 2 or 3 people on this board might have a fighting shot if they were placed in that situation. You are not close to one of those people. And you don't understand game theory on top of it. You don't stand a prayer of doing better in the draft...past or future. You sure as hell don't stand a chance in assessing how Tanny did in the past. Especially when you don't even have the future to judge his past on more accurately. Get out of the deep end of the pool. You have already drowned.
Interesting set of assumptions that you made in this. Reading them convinces me only that anything that you write that is longer than a paragraph has a good chance of being a wall of garbage. I'll prioritize my time in reading and responding to your posts accordingly.
Now back to the main point. The Jets have exercised fewer picks than any other team in the NFL in the last 5 seasons. This is why they have so little elite frontline talent compared to the teams that matter in the NFL. When you routinely trade your draft picks for players that other teams have decided are expendable you aren't buying into a favorable market. Even the discounts aren't highly favorable. The Panthers gave up Kris Jenkins for two mid-round picks because they knew his knee was a bad risk. They were able to factor that in much more tightly than the Jets could because they had Jenkins in-house and had observed his recovery to that point. Jenkins came to the Jets, played one season and part of another and then retired, which was probably exactly what the Panthers expected when they traded him. The Browns gave up Braylon Edwards for two mid-round picks for a number of reasons, but probably the most important were that he was having trouble keeping it together in public and he viewed his skills as more valuable than they'd proven to be, making it unlikely he would be signable to a reasonable deal when he hit free agency. The Jets saw both factors in action, with Edwards acting out in public and then refusing anything but a star contract when he was headed to free agency. The Browns had more information on Edwards and so they were able to take two draft picks from the Jets for under two seasons work by Edwards. Santonio Holmes was a different story. He was player who carried a lot of baggage around with him. He wasn't a team-first player and he sulked when he got left out of the offense for whatever reason. We got to see that in full force last season at the end of the year. The Steelers got to see it in 2009 when they missed the playoffs and Holmes got dialed down at the end of the year. Yeah he had off the field problems as well but those alone would not have gotten him sent out of Pittsburgh. What got him sent out of Pittsburgh was that the Steelers decided that his contributions were not worth the weight of the baggage he contributed to the overall team effort. At a 5th round pick he looked like a great buy. But the Steelers had more information than the Jets and their opinion was that he was part of the problem on their team not part of the solution so they let him go. The Jets are now locked into that problem for at least two seasons. And Holmes is definitely part of the problem on the Jets right now. Antonio Cromartie? Another guy with issues on and off the field. Good cover corner who is not a complete player because he's injury prone and afraid of head on contact. The Jets went into this one with pretty good information given that they knew Cro was not a hitter and they knew he couldn't keep his dick out of anything that moved and he wasn't smart enough to use a condom. They gave up a 2nd round pick for a guy they already knew was not a complete player on the field and had issues off of it. Shonn Greene? 3 draft picks for a halfback with bad ribs and ankles. Please. Kenrick Ellis? A 3rd round pick for a guy facing felony charges that might well lead to his deportation. These are the guys that the Jets have spent draft picks on when they weren't failing to find NFL players in the draft with their own picks. This is why the team is sitting on a ledge at this point waiting to find out if the next draft backs them off of it or pushes them over. Acquiring players with injury and character issues while simultaneously giving up depth and drafting poorly in the small college market is a highly flawed strategy for talent acquisition. Every move has the potential to blow up in your face, not just on the field but off of it as well. Any injury is magnified by the poor depth the strategy creates. It's just a bad strategy overall. Since 2006 the Jets are 41-39 overall with 2 playoff appearances in 5 seasons. They've managed to accomplish those highly mediocre results despite spending heavily in free agency to supplement the poor draft strategy. They have nowhere to go at this point. They're right in the middle of Mike Tannenbaum's plan, firmly entrenched in it, and the team's overall direction is not forward but stuck in neutral. For every young guy that might turn into something on the roster there is another aging vet who certainly will decline. That's why I'm so pissed off at the team's general direction and management at this point.
Man , Bradway is seriously the most miserable bastard I've ever seen on this site. Talk about an SOJF debbie downer to the max.
most draft picks take a couple years to develop the question is in his limited chances did he show enough progress and i would say he did a full camp and another year of development and he could turn into a good player i don't think he is showing he is a bust
