Oh, what a crock of crap. That's YOUR opinion of what a sports fan is, because that is the way that YOU view things. A "fair weather fan" is one who roots for the team/player win they are doing well, but would quickly abandon the team/player when they suck. I'm a Tebow fan and now a Jet's fan. I"ll pull for the team and Tebow no matter how bad things might get. Whether that's with Sanchez farking things up, or Tebow coming in and being ineffective. If you insist on putting a label on me, call me a Free Agent fan.
It's kind of ironic to browse around this board and see all the complaints about Shotty, and how he handicapped Sanchez, yet the beatdown by the Pats was all Tebow's fault. The Pats did something fairly simple to stuff the Broncos, they ran a 5-2 defense (Double Eagle) and quite frankly, McCoy, the OC didn't know how in the world to attack it. Let's get away from so called "gimmick" offenses for a second. In the NFL, when you see the defense lined up in specific schemes, you go to your playbook and call the plays meant to attack that specific defense. Your play calling will be different attacking a 3-4 than it will be a 4-3. Same thing applies with Read/option. Plays that are successful against a 4-3 or others against a 3-4 will get stuffed by a 5-2. Heck, for most of the game, McCoy pretty much kept a 5 man line to try and block the rush. Franklin kept getting blown up on the right side, which is Tebow's blind side. Didn't help of course that Franklin is a standard RT @ 330lbs trying to pass block on a much faster LB. I won't say that Tebow played well, but his OC and the line didn't really give him much of a chance right from the get go.
Ok... so... the defensive logic: Sanchez in: Conventional offense. Look alive. Tebow in: That dumbass can't throw if his life depended on it. Get ready to lay some lumber on the ball carrier. So this helps the offense how? Are you trying to tell me Jets should create a package that features both Sanchez AND Tebow? (Neil O'Donnell and Kordell Stewart tried that shit in Blitzburgh back in the days. It did not look good.) On top of that... you have WFH, of all blockers, blocking Tebow's blindside. Recipe for a colossal disaster? Betcha!
Henning/Sparano on Tebow and the Wildcat: Haters are Hooey! Short recap: "You the fan and mediots don't know squat about football and what we're doing and regurgitate media stupidity. It works and works well in the NFL. Let us worry about whether we can make it work or not" No seriously, it's a pretty good article and everyone should read it as Henning and Sparano blast away some of the hearsay and "media truth" you hear people make about what they're trying to do. And what would be a Tebow article without them taking another stab at Sanchez and............Namath? So they sent a message to Namath too for his comments earlier. So Tebow's Namath. Mark needs to deal with. Henning loves Tebow(wants a job?). The idea that it won't work is all hooey. Sparano will get it done. Welcome aboard?
Message for you, Dan: Why don't you work for the Jets again? I heard Jets QB coach guy - what was his face, Cavanaugh or something? - was such an incompetent fuckoff. And Jets are going back to the E/P system that made them contenders back in Parcells days. Your time to come back, I bet ya.
Yeah, I wondered what the OP meant when he said the FO took a stab at Sanchez and Namath..Henning doesn't work for the Jets.
Tebow was ranked 28th among QBs and Sanchez was 23rd, if you look at ESPN's Total QB rating it is even closer, 29th vs. 31st...you make it sound like Sanchez is so much better..he is not.
I also think Tebow will be a better thrower then the pundits think he will be. But this whole plan is dependent on the idea that Sanchez and the offense will get better. If that doesn't happen, all bets are off.
I didn't. Sanchez-led offense is a conventional offense, with sprinkle of runs and passes - give him time, and he will do his fair share of damage. Nothing more, nothing less. Now, with Tebow, it's a whole new story. That's all there is to it. Really.
Never mind...I still must be reading it wrong...of course I could have probably read the link which I still haven't.
I feel like my response in another thread better belongs here because it gives people a visual of what they are talking about in the article. This is a response to a conversation about the Patriots offense being based on the concepts of the spread option offense. The Pats coaches also shared ideas during seminars with Florida, which is what Tebow later ran. No, just like it says, the Patriots based their offense on the spread option. They are both spread offenses. There are many spread offenses. For example the Air Coryell is also a spread offense which is what Carolina used as their base for their spread option. This is the Patriots running the standard spread offense and yes they did run this as well: This is older than dirt and it's very different than that spread option, but there is no run threat(hence no "option" to run). They don't use it regularly. I actually don't think they've used this ever since Moss left or at least I have not seen it. With the spread option you don't always need to go 5 wide and the running game is always very much a threat. The Pats current offense has evolved but it initially was based on spread option concepts. The Pats basically started off with something very similar to the spread option, except, because Brady can't run, he basically never had the option to run. He could still pitch it though. And he often does, but it rarely looks like a pitch when Brady dumps it off. Looks more like a little jump pass. so what you end up with is this.... Which is what they ran this past year. Which is very much like this which is what Tebow runs: They kind of came full circle except they operate very differently. Everyone knows Brady's not going to run once he snaps that ball. He's either passing or handing it off. In Tebow's offense he gives you that run threat because he can run. One of the main reasons why Brady gets so many dinks and dunks passes, and he gets to have a 65%+ completion percentage is because it serves as part of their short run game. In a regular spread option like Tebow's he's going to be running for those short gains. Brady passes for them because he can't run. In essence they are SIMULATING a running threat. That's basically the difference. And because of this change it's one of the reason Brady has become so deadly with his short passing game. His precision and ability to pass in traffic, pretty much equals the same thing as Tebow's running threat so they are also able to exploit the same match-ups a true spread options gives you. But if you can run, you don't need to pass 35 times a game or be a deadly accurate passer short, because ....you can run. Tebow's going to give you that run threat and demand respect with his 5.4 yards per carry. So guys like Brady gives you those great short deadly accurate passes but Tebow also gives you this... [YOUTUBE]Z1x148IuNKE[/YOUTUBE] Brady usually answers this with a pass that goes for a TD. This as an example of Tebow exercising "the option". The other difference is Tebow gets no credit to his passing game for accomplishing the same thing while Tom will get a passing TD and 30 yards added to his stats for a 7 yard pass. This is on a blitz, btw, which is pretty crazy and would drive defenses absolutely mad! How often do you see NFL teams running the ball on a blitz for a TD? Problem in Denver is they didn't have the freaking personnel for it. It's all about match-ups and guys like Thomas and Erick Decker in Denver didn't match up well with ANYONE. They are suited so much better for a more traditional offense and a QB like Peyton who has no problem taking snaps form under center and giving them time to get open. And guys like Willis wasn't a catcher, unlike for example Carolina's running backs. Denver's TE....no comment. Patriots exploit match-ups. Panthers exploit match-ups. All Denver could do is try to get the open man....open. Which is where those long bombs from Tebow came in. But they had no match-up advantages with NFL defenses for the short or intermediary game, which is why it was easier to stop by teams like the Patriots and smart defenses. Guys like Gronk, Hernandez, Branch, Welker for the Pats or Shockey, Olson, Dengelo Williams and Stewart(both of which can catch) present nightmare match-ups for defenses. In Denver's case most defenses knew their short game was almost always the run game so they went after Tebow, but it had more to do with personnel, than it had to do with some sort of deficiency on the part of Tim Tebow. So in Denver it only worked primarily because of Tebow's run game, but that's only 25% if that of what makes it effective. That's really limiting what you can do. He was the main offensive threat and it becomes a lot easier to stop. You gotta have the right personnel to get your match-up advantage, and I think the Jets have that. You can't just rely on Tebow himself to make it work in the NFL. You gotta get him tight ends, smart tight ends, who can block. Get him a RB who can catch. Get him some solid receivers. My only beef with this article and what Sporano and the Jets plan on doing is that unless they plan on playing Tebow a lot ,like 50% or more, then they are half-assing it too. The reason it worked so well in Carolina is because they went ALL IN. You can't have ass it. You have to open it up. You have to design it from the bottom up, with the right personnel. And for Jets fans that didn't really get a chance to see what they were doing in Carolina....not only did it work in the NFL, not only could they not be stopped, but they totally CLOWNED NFL defenses. Even bringing up stuff like this: [YOUTUBE]JV5iGN5FOkc[/YOUTUBE] :lol: And that was against the Texans D, going up 21-0 in the 2nd quarter. They had no clue what the Panther were doing in that game anymore. None. Panthers could get away with just about anything at that point. But Fox and his staff had no vision with Tebow though. We'll see of Sporano is as genius as Chudzinski is and he should be able to do even more interesting things. Because unlike other dual/rush QB...Tebow has something they don't have. He runs like a running back. Other teams are limited to the type of plays they run due to the fear of injury to their QB's. Tebow's a very tough guy. PS: While most people were scratching their heads of reports the Patriots may have bee interested in him, if you understand the above, you can see why they were. If you put Tebow in that Patriots offense he would feel somewhat familiar, he would have given the Pats offense a true run threat that they are actually simulating with Brady's passing and the last thing anyone would expect...when Tebow would come off the bench.....is for Tebow to pass the ball. Which is what happened against the Steelers....he passed.
It's really a matter of what Ryan wants to do..I doubt they brought Tebow in to throw the ball but he can certainly run it..maybe better than anybody else on the team in certain designed plays. As long as they keep it to that he should be a definite upgrade over anything we had last year.
Like I said, it depends on how much they devote to making it work. If they plan on using it sparingly, most people will hardly see a difference except for a play here and there. If they plan on making it an integral part of the offense.... It will be interesting. One thing I will say about what Fox did with Tebow that was different than Carolina and Newton. Fox DID try to merge a traditional and spread option offense. It was more of a hybrid. It wasn't very good, patched up and as I explained above, used very bad personnel. Other than the few set run plays with Tebow, they asked their guys on offense to do things they were very badly suited for. Perhaps Ryan and Sporano saw both, what the Panthers did, and what Fox was trying to put together, but feel they have the right personnel to make the transition from a conventional offense, including snaps under center and the whole shibbang to a spread option offense. If, and it's a big IF, they can pull that off, then I'd be impressed and it would be pretty incredible to watch. On paper and in theory it would be damn near impossible to stop because it would have all the elements of both a college-style spread option and a conventional NFL offense. I've never seen it done, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend I know better than an NFL offensive coordinator. To be able to go from a Power I, grind and pound, take snaps under center with Sanchez, to a full blown spread option with Tebow at ANY point in the game. Good luck to NFL defenders keeping up with all that. That's A LOT of scheming they would have to plan for. To have all those weapons in your arsenal? That would be huge. I just happen to be more of a believer in specializing in one thing, but who knows what they can evolve it into. Jets may very well change the way we approach the QB position. The days of "the franchise QB" might be over if the Jets pull this off. We will move into the days of NFL relief QB days, and multiple "franchise QB's". Could be pretty cool stuff. They are innovators. I know in Carolina they let Cam take snaps under center, because the run game was pretty much dead in the first half of the season due to them running the spread option out of shotgun all the time. Running backs were not used to running out of that formation, and the run game sucked with the exception of Newton. Alternatively Cam also sucked taking snaps under center. Mid-way through the season though, they gave up on that, continued to stick with the spread option and eventually taught their running backs to learn how to make it work. They taught them how to catch better. How to block better. They taught their receivers, even guys like Smith, to block in the back field. These things have a tendency to end up with new combinations different from what you initially start off with. I think fans should be excited, because at the very least, it should be fun to watch. Fox, figured out how to blend the running aspect of the spread option with the conventional offense running game a lot better but it does mean Tebow takes a much bigger beating than Newton does in Carolina's offense. So they have to figure out which way they want to go with it and consider the risks. PS: People need to get away from the whole "conventional NFL offense" is the way to go. Look around! Everyone is going in this direction. The Patriots have made 5 freaking Super Bowls in the past decade, having all the fun in the world exploiting "the traditional NFL" teams because they were all so much alike. Teams are just now starting to catch on. With Luck and RG 3 coming in, it's only going to go more and more in this direction.
Except the Jets offense and Sanchez excelled in the red zone last season. How does this help fill a weakness.
No. That means he has the same headache the rest of us have after we banged our heads against the wall after hearing about this idiotic trade.
We were only the #1 redzone offense in the league. I don't mind tebow in the Jesus cat in the redzone. He's a serious threat in that area, and if we can improve a little in the redzone, that's going to win some games. Take us from the best, to dominant in the redzone, I'm cool with that.
Did the mods just merge ALL the threads? That's a great idea there... You're better off creating a Tebow section than putting everything in one thread. Some of the discussions are completely different.
That has been discussed and may be something we decide to go with, but nothing is set in stone yet. As for now this IS a Jets forum, not a Tebow forum. We don't need 15 Tim Tebow threads. There is a "suggestions" forum for comments like this, please keep them there.
