"NAH guys it's the SYSTEM. The SYSTEM. Won't miss a beat with Brady's replacement" -Delusional Pats fans.
Yes trade Brady for Sanchez and see how many wins each team would have. Hate Tom Brady, but he is a very good quarterback and one of the main reasons for your teams success.
Aside from the Gholston pick, you probably have to go back to before Keyshawn to find a 'bust'. Trading up to draft Keller in 08 cost the Jets the ability to take Forte or Rice in the 2nd, but he was not a bad pick. The Pats, on the other hand, have had 3 1st round picks (Maroney, McCourty, Meriweather) since 06 that were mediocre at best. Not to mention the likes of Brace, Butler, O'Connell, Price, Cunningham, Dowling, Vereen and Ridley in rounds 2-3 since 08. Chung was a decent pick, but you passed on Jaius Byrd three times in the second round that year. He's been to the pro-bowl and is the ball-hawking safety that the Pats lack. To answer your question, since Revis (07 draft) the Jets have drafted: Keller (No Gronk or AH, but still one of the better receiving threats at TE) Sanchez (Franchise QB, no Brady but still hasn't reached potential) Wilson (Stuck at #3 CB, probably better than McCourty) Wilkerson (Future Pro-Bowler according to many, had a solid rookie year) Greene (3rd round, much better than your 1st round pick Maroney) Slauson (6th round, started all of last year w a torn up shoulder) Ellis (3rd round, future anchor of our front 7) Kerley (5th round, could be one of the most promising slot WRs in the game) McKnight (One of the best ST guys in the game, as versatile as anyone) Conner (Got the Terminator in the 5th round... enough said) Also, we traded our 2nd last year for Cromartie. The best CB that would have been on the board at that point was Chris Culliver. I'd call that a good trade. The Browns got jack shit with their Sanchez picks, so I'd call that a winner, too. So i don't really get what you're trying to prove. Yeah, you guys drafted your TEs, Mayo, Solder and Vollemer. Aside from those 5, none of those names stand out (although I'm a big fan of the Brandon Spikes sex tape). The bottom line is that you can't say the Pats have been much better in recent drafts, if at all. To be fair, though, looking back there are four Jets selections that really bug me over the last 4 years. 2008- Jets take VG at 6- should have traded back, would have also allowed them to get Keller without giving up rounds 2 and 4. Or, if they stayed at 6, a combo of DBrick and Ryan Clady would be scary. 2008- Jets take Erik Ainge at 162, Carl Nicks drafted @ 164. 2008- Jets take Nate Garner at 211, Peyton Hillis drafted @ 227. 2010- Jets take Vlad D at 61, Charles Brown drafted @ 64, Amari Spievey drafted @ 66. So, in retrospect, Tanny had a bad draft in 2008 and blew our second rounder in 2010. I'd love to see your run-down of all the Pats' outstanding picks over the last four years.
With the exception of the TEs & VoellmerThe only thing good about any of those players is that they were immediate contributors on the NFL level. But has Mayo ever really improved since his rookie year? He still struggles with consistency, and I don't see alot of explosive plays. Solder has a long way to go my man. Has alot of talent but I see a guy who can get overpowered and outwitted against guys with better leverage.Let's see how defenders attack him now that he has film out there. Maybe he gets better and maybe he doesn't. Spikes is a 2 down player and nothing to get excited about. Just get out of here with this dribble. You wanna tell us the Patriots are a more successful franchise than the Jets? If it helps you sleep at night..fine. But don't insult our intelligence.
Well they did make 2 AFCE champ games and made the playoffs 3 times, so its not like the success of those drafts was completely futile. How can you possibly attribute ONLY drafting to the success of a team? That wasn't the argument. Stop creating strawmans to enhance your narrow minded point of view. The fact of the matter is the Patriots have drafted like shit recently, and the Jets haven't Thats it. Plain and simple. Does that make the Jets a better team? Absolutely not. And btw, if we're splitting hairs with the 'wins per year' argument the Jets went further than the Pats in 2 of the 4 years excluding the year both teams missed the playoffs and neither 'won' anything. I'll take advancing further in the playoffs than being one and done and accumulating more wins.
I'm seeing McCourty on a list to prove the Pats drafted good? That is a joke. Drafting a player for one year then having to hide him and change positions does not equal a good draft pick. And yes of course the Jets have drafted better than the Pats when you take in that the Jets have done more with less picks. What surrounds those picks in the NE case is one of the best QBs in the game today that cover up draft mistakes to an extent.
So the Jet fans are going to give Sanchez the benefit of a 4th year, but the Pats drafted a bust in McCourty after just 2 seasons? You guys are funny.
When did he say McCourty was a bust? Show me where Sanchez had statistically the worst season at his position of all time like McCourty did?
LETS HAVE TRAINING CAMP last year we didnt have this god given gift of practice. Now with a full off season lets see if our team can progress I think everyone is WAY to dismal on this team
I never said McCourty was a bust and I never said Sanchez was a good draft pick. You are making up stuff now because you realized you picked a very very very poor example of a good Pats draft pick.
1) Don't try to diminish the Patriots' accomplishment of making it to the Super Bowl. The "who cares about losing in the Super Bowl?" argument looks real stupid after this board spent the last two off-seasons blowing it's collective load over the Jets' Championship Game appearances. 2) It's really hard to respect anyone's opinion if they seriously think the Patriots' success is ONLY because of Tom Brady. They made it to five Super Bowls because they consistently have a very talented and deep roster, if you can't see that you're an idiot. 3) I'm not entirely sure how a thread titled "Top free agents for next season" turned into a comparison of the Patriots and Jets' draft history, but it's led to a whole lot of bullshit. According to you guys Muhammed Wilkerson is "a future pro-bowler" but Nate Solder "gets overpowered and outwitted." Someone actually said that Eric Smith and Pat Chung are similar. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? The conversation can have a lot more respectability if people can get past the whole "everyone on my team is better than everyone on your team" nonsense. Here's an honest attempt at a fair comparison of the two teams' drafting history. We'll arbitrarily start at 2006, when the Patriots started having their worst drafts and the Jets started having their best. Note- I only included players that are still on the roster, the people who are still helping the team win games. I also included undrafted guys, because I figure the it doesn't matter. I don't care how my team does it, as long as they find good players coming out of college I'm happy. Let me know if I excluded anyone important Players of note the Jets drafted: Brick Mangold E Smith Revis Harris Devito Keller Sanchez Greene Slauson Wilson Conner McKnight Wilkerson Kerley Players of note the Pats drafted Gostkowski Mayo Slater Green-Ellis Chung Vollmer Edelman McCourty Gronkowski Spikes Hernandez Mesko Deaderick Love Solder Ridley IMO the two best players drafted by either team wear green jerseys. Revis and Mangold are the current gold status of their respective positions, both are mainstays at the Pro Bowl and both have a legitimate shot at Canton. I think the best guy after that is probably Gronkowski, he was arguably the most dominant TE in NFL history last year. Now that we're past the truly elite players, it's about the guys who we really know are good football players. I think both teams have three players that fit that category. Ferguson, Harris, and Keller on one side, and Mayo, Vollmer, and Hernandez on the other. I think most non-biased observers would take Mayo over Harris, Hernandez over Keller, and Ferguson over Vollmer. A few things I want to point out here, first, Keller is underrated by this board. He needs a blocking TE to be paired with if he's gonna play in a ground and pound offense, but overall he is a dangerous weapon that can cause a lot of problems for a defense. Last year he was a good player in a bad offense. Secondly, people referring to Vollmer as an "average at best RT" should really watch the games before spouting their opinions. Vollmer was elected to second team all-pro in just his sophmore season (something Brick has never done) before injuries derailed his 2011 season. Slater and McKnight made it to the list because they are both very good special teamers, and I'm someone who believes special teams are important. The Patriots also drafted an excellent kicker and punter, two positions the Jets definitely need to improve. Kyle Wilson vs Devin McCourty is a tricky comparison. Wilson struggled big time his rookie year but looked like a pretty legit player his 2nd, whereas McCourty played like a Pro Bowler his rookie year and then struggled big time his 2nd (especially the first half of the season.) I think it's a tossup at this point, you could make a strong argument for either player. Wilkerson and Solder had similar rookie years. Both played a lot of snaps, both held up pretty well and showed a ton of promise, both have plenty of things they need to improve on. Ridley and Kerley are also comparable, both showed promise in relatively small roles for their offense. Green-Ellis and Slauson are both dependable and average. Mike Devito, Kyle Love, and Brandon Deaderick are all nice, big-bodied, rotational lineman. None are terrific players, but they play important roles and winning teams need guys like this. Edelman, Conner, and Smith are all guys who can play relatively small roles, but overall are seem like JAGs. Conner seems like he can play FB, but how big of an impact to fullbacks really make? Maybe an elite FB can really help a team, Conner hasn't shown that kind of ability yet. After that, all that's left are Spikes, Chung, Sanchez, and Greene. These are the toughest evaluations, because all have shown promise and all have obvious warts. Spikes and Chung have struggled staying on the field, and when they are on the field they're often getting beat in coverage. One thing I want to defend Spikes on, I read someone say he is nothing more than a two-down player. I wouldn't be so quick to pigeon-hole him, he played 177 of 220 snaps (80%) in the playoffs and was absolutely tearing it up. If you watch the Super Bowl he looks like Bart Scott from 2009. Greene is useless in the passing game, can't catch or block, and hasn't been a good enough runner to make up for it. I personally think he's nothing more than a mediocre part-time back, and here's a little food for thought for his supporters Greene's first 3 years 546 carries for 2360 yards and 10 TDs and 46 catches for 331 yards Laurence Maroney's first 3 years (discounting 2008 where he was placed on IR after week 3) 554 carries for 2337 yards and 21 TDs and 40 catches for 409 yards and 1 TD Greene still has to prove himself or he could end up out of the league in a few years like Maroney. Sanchez is a whole other can of worms, let's just keep it simple and say he struggles with accuracy and needs to improve his pocket presence. One last thing, just for the record, since 2006 Patriots - 76-20 (6-5 playoffs) 3 Championship games, 2 Super Bowl appearances Jets - 51-45 (4-3 playoffs) 2 Championship games, 0 Super Bowl appearances Even if you convince yourself the Jets have done better at drafting, just remember that's what really matters.
Damn your standards of players of note is quite low. I thought we were discussing good players, most of these guys are either unproven or suck. Ill update your list to make it slightly more appropriate Brick Mangold Revis Harris Devito Keller Greene (possibly slightly generous here) Slauson Wilkerson Players of note the Pats drafted Mayo Green-Ellis (being a generous here he benefits from Brady too much) Vollmer Gronkowski Spikes Hernandez Solder (little early to put him here, but hes got potential. However he was drafted far earlier than Wilkerson so his expections should be significantly higher) As a matter of fact your list was a complete joke, and absolutely ridiculous all around. Steven Ridley ? The guy has 350 fucking career rushing yards and youre gonna chalk him up as a success. Julian Edelman has 470 recieving yards in 3 seasons, and is a mediocre special teamer. Im not sure if youre on some heavy drugs, but a ton of those guys belong nowhere near any argument bragging about how good your team drafts.
You rehash that "summary" on pretty much a daily basis on this board. My question is...if the Patriots are so superior to the Jets, why do you feel the need to come here and constantly remind us of it?
We will see how great the Patriots have drafted once Brady starts to decline. It's all Brady and Belichick, get that in your head. Put Brady on the Jets since 2006 and I guarantee you they would have won at least one ring with the defenses Rex fielded in '09 and '10. I'm sure Fins fans thought similarly when they had Marino and Shula.
Yeah and considering you don't really need to break any rules to get banned these days the mods might as well get rid of patsfantx
Lets not forget, Gronk had one of the best seasons if not the best ever for a TE. The knock on him comming out of A-State wasnt his talent, but ability to stay healthy. This is why he dropped in the draft. Lets see how consistent he is after a few more seasons. I would bet $ that he has a short lived career (3-4) years as teams key in on him and start to bang on that 6-7 frame.
