Mr.T- Sanchez did not improve enough in 2011

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Kentucky Jet, Feb 25, 2012.

  1. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    I'm ok with the Jets coming to the decision that Sanchez did not progress enough/turn into the QB they expected him to be and they're moving on now.

    I'm not ok with them pretending that we are in anything but gut rehab mode at that point though. This team isn't remotely talented enough to compete with the elite teams at the moment and Sanchez is not at the heart of that issue.

    Like the Giants in 2006 the rest of the team is not ready to compete at that level yet. They were ready a year ago but they've lost a lot of talent since then and they're not ready now.

    If the team improves enough to make a clutch QB worth something then the Jets might have a shot at doing something next season. If they just plug another QB in to the works they're going to get the same results or worse than they got last season.

    I half think the Jets should just rebuild anyway. A lot of key contributors are getting up there in years and they could easily patch last year's holes and find out that two or three more spring open next season.
     
    #121 Br4d, Mar 2, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
  2. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    That does not change the picture altogether now, does it?

    What do you think the OL allows more, hurries and hits or sacks? Is it theoretically possible to give up less hits and hurries than sacks? Just to give you a hint, even in his first two years, Sanchez was taking his share of licks all over the place. (The pop to his knees during Browns game, and his pass to Cotchery while being decked comes to mind.)
     
  3. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    This is my issue as well.

    1. OL is porous. (Prime evil)
    2. WRs are not getting separation (Secondary to #1)
    3. Ground game got grounded. (Again, secondary symptom from #1)

    And:

    4. DL not eating up blocks (both run downs and passing downs) or setting the edge properly (run downs.) (The PRIME evil on the defense)
    5. LBs are running with a cinder block strapped on their feet. (I don't know what speed here could do other than mitigating damage, thanks to #4.)
    6. Safeties cannot cover scarecrow. (#4 and #5 magnifies this problem since the front seven cannot get to the QB even in a full year's time frame.)

    That's about the ENTIRE ROSTER that has problem. Now, pinning #1, #2 and #3 on Sanchez makes sense how? Why aren't we saying the same thing about Revis and the secondary about the pass coverage, or Harris about giving up 100+ yards a game?
     
    #123 Zach, Mar 2, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
  4. PolygamyWinsChampionships

    PolygamyWinsChampionships Well-Known Member

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    Sanchez's third year woes were more symptomatic of the teams third year woes than anything of his own. You can say he did this wrong or he did that wrong, but I know that when you put a kid back there and ask him to go out there underaged and under experienced compared to the average NFL starter you can't give him the kind of hurdles Sanchez had to deal with last year and expect him to carry the team all on his shoulders.

    He doesn't know which play he's going to get clobbered on, but he knows it's going to be often and painful. His WR's were for shit from the middle of the season on. Couldn't run the football. Schotty couldn't call plays. Defense lost a step.

    But if you think about it, how bad are we really off? Schotty was public enemy #1 and he's already gone. Draft has a great opportunity to upgrade at WR and OLB, (or HB and one of the previous), FA has good safeties available, and we have enough room in the cap and restructures to get who we want within reason. Sure I wish I didn't have to rely on Vladimir freaking Ducasse to shore up the OL and let us invest our resources where they can make an impact instead of overpaying some schlub because he's the best of a bad bunch of FA's. But every team winds up with these inherent weaknesses in at least one or two positions. It will be the Jets ability to plug the biggest holes that will define whether we're on the outside looking in again at 8-8 or 9-7, or whether we're back in the hunt right where we should be.
     
  5. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    We will see how the change in blocking scheme affects the offense. Jets still need a deep threat. Still though, they are about good 2~3 players away from being very good.

    The problem lies with the defense. The talent level on the defense is rather atrocious. Especially the front seven. If you cannot get to the QBs on a regular basis, the entire defense will suffer. We have seen that for the past three years. And the front seven is still lacking that threat you need to punch the other offense in the mouth.
     
  6. PolygamyWinsChampionships

    PolygamyWinsChampionships Well-Known Member

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    The last part is where I start to diverge. I think the front 7 isn't lacking much of anything besides a beastly OLB to tie together that unit and in turn the whole defense. If you draft that passrusher in round one and he comes in and is an immediate difference maker...the pieces are all there. Maybin is just dying for a buddy on the other side, you'd be able to start to use him with great effect on at least 2 downs a series instead of 3rd down like last year. Mo Wilk is only going to get better, and it might be a little bit of a stretch but we might get to see Ellis and Pouha in at the same time next year with one of them on the nose and the other on the end.

    We could even look at a mid level FA OLB and try to draft Hightower and run him inside/outside depending on the package. Same for Upshaw. We just need to spend that 1st round pick on the front 7 and Rex will finally have the personnel to run the kind of flexible attacking defense that we brought him in here to run.

    And sleep well that's all over Rex's mind right now. He wants this defense to be a killer and he's going to get his wish damn sure. First he built an unrivaled CB core because he knows how scarce that supply is in general. Then he worked on the DL last year. LB's and Safeties this year. Polish the edges next year. Rex ain't foolin around about his defense. Neither should we.
     
  7. Noam

    Noam Well-Known Member

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    Sanchez was pressured less than every other starting QB in the league that started 16 games except for Fitzpatrick. The line did not play that bad last year it was Sanchez's inability to avoid the rush that caused the high sack total. Ranking at the bottom of the league in sack to pressure ratio. Taking a sack a ridiculous 23% of the time he is pressured was the reason the line looked bad. Terrel Suggs is right when he said Sanchez is soft and folds up under pressure. It is why Sanchez will not be in the NFL much longer. Do you ever see Sanchez stay in the pocket taking a hit while throwing the ball away or to a receiver. Very rarely. He will almost always fall down rather than take a hit. Or simply throw the ball away anytime anyone is even remotely close. Which is likely why his completion percentage under pressure is so low. He simply is to soft and scared to hang in the pocket and take hits.

    Give the Jets a mediocre to bad QB in 2011 and they are a 11-12 win team.
     
    #127 Noam, Mar 2, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
  8. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    [YOUTUBE]cPBi4OCzzDg[/YOUTUBE]

    This is how Sanchez started the season last year. Are you telling me he is supposed to feel comfortable in that porous piece of estate they call pocket? Are you stupid? You know the rush is coming from the edge and it's coming fast. You know the receivers are running with a stack of lead strapped on their feet. What do you do, run?
     
  9. PolygamyWinsChampionships

    PolygamyWinsChampionships Well-Known Member

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    Football would be such an easy game to understand if you could just grab random meaningless statistics out of thin air from ESPN to make some random assertion that has nothing to do with the truth without having to actually watch the games. If only people ended up with the right idea when they did that. Hmmm.
     
  10. Royce Parker

    Royce Parker Well-Known Member

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    This was already a pretty terrible post to begin with but to say Sanchez is afraid to take hits? What games have you been watching?
     
  11. AbdulSalam

    AbdulSalam New Member

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    The Right Tackle position was a major weakness which in turn affected the entire offensive continuity especially Sanchez. If it is not addressed the problems will continue and it wouldn't really matter if Peyton was the QB or Sammy Baugh was the QB - if your RT plays like a frikking pussy you are going to get KILLED.
     
  12. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    Either Dolphin or Patriot games. He likely saw Sanchez play twice in 2011. Same for that other dope that said 'the book on Sanchez it's that he loves the dump off way too much'. That is Curious George Plays PeeWee, not the book on Sanchez.

    Sanchez showed very good escapability in the first two thirds of the season; he would probably have 10-15 more sacks if he couldn't sense the rush during that time.

    But after a certain number of crushing hits, he started getting happy feet and Early Release Syndrome. It happens when a QB is playing hurt and has no faith in the line in front of him.
     
    #132 abyzmul, Mar 2, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
  13. alleycat9

    alleycat9 Well-Known Member

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    bottom line is that when sanchez was pressured last year he shriveled up. he constantly threw sidearm passes to simply get rid of the ball rather than stand up and make a throw like a professional qb.

    he did this pretty consistently from the baltimore game on. it was painful to watch and the kid was completely shell shocked. this may very well not be fixable and will continue to end up in passes off the back of kellers helmet, passes out in front or behind rbs in the flat and god awful reads of passes thrown over the middle.

    so we can talk all we want about his sacks, ints, how eli manning did something the same as he did at some point in his life or anything else we want, but if this kid doesnt grow himself a pair of balls and stand up and step up in the pocket he will never be any good.
     
  14. PolygamyWinsChampionships

    PolygamyWinsChampionships Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, incorrect. It only happens to Mark Sanchez's who are born shitty quarterbacks4lyfe.
     
  15. Phear

    Phear New Member

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    Talk about taking certain facts to strengthen your arguments while leaving others out. Tell me, those "several" QBs you speak of, do you happen to know how much separation their receivers were getting? If you do not, then this stat is fucking useless, as are many other stats. I watched every Jets game, as I'm sure you have as well. Our receivers DID NOT get any consistent separation. If you say otherwise, you are as ignorant as you appear.

    The one thing Sanchez really needs to work on is throwing the ball away. At least a third of his ints were him trying to force the ball into a covered receiver. Sanchez looked like complete garbage at times, yeah his ints went up by five, and his ypa dropped slightly. Every other positive category he improved in. This tells me he is not the root cause of our O's shitty play last year.

    FYI- I left out fumbles lost and rushing TDs because I don't know the numbers off the top of my head, but I figured they'd cancel each other out.
     
  16. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    The comment about side arm throws is wrong enough, but the bolded part is about as wrong as you can get. You don't DVR the games, do you?
     
  17. Kentucky Jet

    Kentucky Jet Active Member

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    And yet I read that BRICK gave up more sacks then Hunter last year( 8.5 to 9). It was NOT a great year for BRICK at all. How come that is never mentioned? Sanchez holding on to the ball too long also contributes to sacks. That is never mentioned! Nick being out(injured) a few games also hurt Sanchez. That should be mentioned as well. Moore did not play well until he was back from injury for 4 games! I see no mention of that anywhere. All I see is fans going after the easy target: HUNTER. Its still a team game I think!

    What I wonder about is if Tanny and Rex feel down about Sanchez' body of work with their first hand view of that body of work, both in games and in practice, how come we fans seem to think we know more about the situation then the professionals? I think some of us let emotions get in the way of reality and just say things to bolster our hero worship OF OUR FAVORITE PLAYERS. That is not to say that the pros never make mistakes! They do but if given a choice between thier opinions and those of fans, I will listen to the pros!
     
    #137 Kentucky Jet, Mar 3, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2012
  18. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    Those things are mentioned on this forum all the time. Maybe you should pay better attention.
     
  19. ace_o_spades

    ace_o_spades New Member

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    If the pros say Sanchez will be the qb to lead the Jets to the promise land will you listen/agree then?
     
  20. TheGreenCantona

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    I am yet to find a pro saying that, apart from the obligatory team mates supporting their qb until another one step in.
     

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