I wouldn't fear the arm of a player that I saw in game film getting up after vicious sacks and holding that throwing arm protectively to his side every single time after the Denver game. It's amazing how few fans and 'analysts' bother to take into account the stinger he suffered during that Thursday night game. But not quite as amazing as his OC calling close to 70 passing plays for that same QB in a do-or-die game after having watched his QB clutch that arm to his side from his own sideline so many times before that game.
And Giants run defense up the middle was softer than wet tissue. BUT Schottenheimer is not to blame. What a brilliant logic that is; I still shake my head in disbelief.
Fair enough, I'll agree to to disagree with you, BB. I didn't throw the team under the bus, I said the struggles on offense had multiple factors, Sanchez included. I just don't feel he deserves the lionshare. The blame is shared. They are a team. One piece does not operate efficiently without its counterpart. One or two faulty components you can overcome, but with 3 or 4 the system will go down.
We were constantly in 2nd and 3rd and long and had to throw and we trailed by double digits a good amount of time. It looks awful on paper but you have to remember the situations in that game. If we ran it on 2nd and 3rd and 15-20 everyone would be screaming "why are we running!".
They were constantly in passing situations all game long. The bottom line is the Giants D played well, that started them on a run where they played great through the SB. Where are the crazy examples of throwing when we should have run?
The score is 7-3 with the Jets in the lead at this point in the second quarter. 1-10-NYJ 13 (11:47) 6-M.Sanchez pass incomplete deep left to 25-J.McKnight. 2-10-NYJ 13 (11:42) 6-M.Sanchez pass short middle to 81-D.Keller to NYJ 18 for 5 yards (93-C.Blackburn). 3-5-NYJ 18 (11:02) (Shotgun) 6-M.Sanchez pass short right to 11-J.Kerley to NYJ 24 for 6 yards (26-A.Rolle). 1-10-NYJ 24 (10:20) 6-M.Sanchez pass short right to 17-P.Burress to NYJ 39 for 15 yards (31-A.Ross). 1-10-NYJ 39 (9:42) 23-S.Greene right guard to NYJ 43 for 4 yards (59-M.Boley). 2-6-NYJ 43 (9:07) 6-M.Sanchez pass short middle to 23-S.Greene to NYJ 49 for 6 yards (59-M.Boley). 1-10-NYJ 49 (8:26) (Shotgun) 6-M.Sanchez scrambles right end to 50 for 1 yard (91-J.Tuck). 2-9- (7:37) 23-S.Greene up the middle to NYG 45 for 5 yards (97-L.Joseph). 3-4-NYG 45 (6:55) (Shotgun) 6-M.Sanchez pass short right to 21-L.Tomlinson to NYG 42 for 3 yards (57-J.Williams). 4-1-NYG 42 (6:26) 4-T.Conley punts 42 yards to end zone, Center-46-T.Purdum, Touchback. That's just upon first glance, but this weekend I'm going to take a closer look at the Schottardation of that Giants game.
when you throw incomplete on 1st, it's a 2nd and long situation and it's a passing down. you had a problem w/ completing a 15 yd pass on 1st down? I think this is a bad example since we got 3 1st downs on the drive. Please take a closer look and let me know what you find, I could be wrong but I recall tons of passing situations in that game.
You misunderstood my post. I did not say the OL talent was equal in 11. Of course it declined, as you know I have said many times on these boards. I also think Edwards's departure was a factor. The point is that defenses could focus on stopping the running game because they did not fear Sanchez. I did not mean to suggest they exactly feared him in 10, but that he could not, did not, compensate when the running game took a hit from OL issues in 11. Ftr I also have said many times, as I am sure you agree, that the RB's are average, and LT's contribution declined from 10 to 11. All of the foregoing is true, including that Sanchez did not have the talent to compensate for any of it, because he's not that good. You unfortunately are all too willing here, in a way that makes you similar to the Sanchez Fans here, to blame everyone else including the ball boys and team bus drivers for the shortcomings of the team. I know you don't really feel that way, and have agreed that Sanchez underperformed last year. All I was saying is quite simple - along with the other problems I agree were issues, Sanchez did not make opponents pay.
Again, I never said Sanchez was the sole problem on O. But I do think that the rest of the O as a whole was no worse than average last season overall over the course of the season. Meanwhile Mark Sanchez was the 23rd rated passer in a passing league. If he had been just the 15th, the Jets would have made the playoffs. More importantly I do not think going forward that we will ever see significant improvement from him, and by significant I mean enough improvement to show he will ever be a Qb who can carry the team on his back to win a game they need to win.
But again, if the o line stepped it up and we had a deep threat, he very well could have been 15th. I'm almost positive he was ranked in the top 10, earlier in the year. I wish I could look up the stats without having to calculate them all myself. You look at QB stats and think it's mostly the QB but everyone contributes to those stats. If Sanchez didn't have to force the ball out early so many times, Keller wouldn't have had so many drops. The average person will say its Sanchez's fault for throwing behind him, but he had to force the ball out asap or get sacked, and the play hadn't developed yet. With a solid o line he can be and he's shown that he can carry the team when needed. Remember how beastly he was in the Raiders game? He practically came back and won it himself despite the tons of mistakes everyone made (including Mark). The 2nd half of the Steelers AFCC game also showed what he can do. I think his future is promising, and Sanchez can take us to the big game and win it. His main issue is consistency, he's been a very streaky player at times (both good and bad), and I feel that with a better team around him, he'll be exactly what this team needs. Next year is do or die, regardless but if Tanny fails to upgrade RT I'm going to be very annoyed.
Like I said, first glance, and while they did get 3 first downs, the game situation was playing with a lead in the early part of the 2nd quarter and they didn't even attempt to establish the run on that drive. And when they did run, they had reasonable gains of 4 and 5 yards. It's not like they kept getting stuffed. The Giants were playing heavy pass on that drive and they forced a punt in their own territory.
I don't see this series as any kind of indictment of the play-calling, either. They made 3 1st downs, and finally faced a 3rd-and-4. That's a passing down unless you have a RB like Adrian Peterson or Frank Gore. The problem with the pass on 3rd down is that it was a check-down rather than beyond the first down marker, and that's on Sanchez. First off, most teams call pass plays on third down that will get at least past the LOS. I seriously doubt that the Jets' playbook was filled with lots of pass plays designed to only get 3 or 4 yards. In other words, Sanchez chose to throw to his check-down rather than throw downfield. Second, if Sanchez wasn't so fond of throwing so short so often, the DBs might be playing off LT somewhat so he might have picked up the extra yard. The "book" on Sanchez is that he loves to throw to his check-downs, so the DBs play up close to the LOS and shut down YAC. They can also shut down the run better. On that play, I wouldn't be surprised if there are 8 or even 9 defenders within 4-5 yards of the LOS at the snap.
Also, anyone remember that incomplete to McKnight? He made a double move against a LB and was wide open up the sideline. A good pass would have resulted in a huge play, if not a TD. That one was on Sanchez.
Did Sanchez miss an open receiver on that play or are you just talking out of your ass? If anything it sounds like play design, or Sanchez being pressured to throw earlier than expected. The problem wasn't one particular play or another, it was the overall lack of running while playing with a hurt, struggling QB in that game. That cannot be denied. Then you also have to look at the 4th quarter down by 6 with 5 minutes to go, and how terribly Schotty botched those calls. You are seriously blaming Sanchez for "wanting to throw short" without considering play design,play calling or WRs getting open in the least? Really? Whatever you're smoking, please pass it this way. Developing the deep ball isn't something that comes over night. Had Sanchez and McKnight been practicing that all year, they might have gotten their chemistry better. He didn't have a problem delivering deep passes to Braylon on numerous occasions. I think lack of training camp held that aspect back a little bit this year. We never really developed a deep threat receiver. In fact I only remember a couple attempts like that the entire year.
Here we go again. This is the relevance of the stats on Qb hits. If the Jets were 22nd, with 1st being worst, that means there were 21 other teams whose Qb was facing MORE pressure than Sanchez. Do you think that your very same analysis might not also apply to them? That if they had less pressure, too, they might have done better? I don't have the info at my finger tips, but there had to be several Qb's whose lines gave up more hits but who achieved higher Qb ratings. Several. I don't see how you get past the connection between the Jets being 11th in preventing hits while their Qb was 23rd in the league at Qb rating. And Qb rating does not take into account his lost fumbles, either. Or giving up safeties. I think we need to put this argument on the side for now. My initial point was that you left out stats in your analysis. We have both had what we had to say about that. I also concede it is possible that Sanchez just might show significant improvement this coming season. Maybe he was more hurt than even his defenders claim, and will be totally healthy. Maybe new coaches will help him read game film better, and he will see defenders better. Maybe he finds better chemistry with this year's receivers than last year's. Maybe replacing Hunter, assuming that happens, makes THAT much of a difference. Time will tell. It's not so far away. I just am not holding my breath, and I think if you care to listen you should have some idea why I am not optimistic. I have heard your reasoning as well. Frankly I do not find it persuasive, but then there are the factors mentioned in the preceding paragraph. That about covers it for right now, imo.
^Yeah we're just going back and forth repeating things at this point. I see blame as shared evenly, you see it mostly on Sanchez. I don't agree, but there's nothing really more to add. Now, in Sanchez' defense I will post one more thing, not really directed toward you but to the general populous that thinks Sanchez is terrible or mostly to blame. Lets look at Sanchez total touchdowns compared with the rest of QBs in the league. Sanchez came in tied for 5th with Romo with 32 total TDS (passing plus rushing). This is significant and touchdowns are THE most important stat in football, hands down. Here's the list: #1: Rodgers – 48 TDs #2: Brees - 47 TDs #3: Brady - 42 TDs #4: Stafford - 41 TDs #5: Sanchez & Romo - 32 TDs I'd say Sanchez is in some good company there. He had more TDs, then 27 other QBs in the league. That is progress, and if those last 3 games weren't butchered so badly by the whole team, He would have been much closer to #4 and most people wouldn't be talking about this.
You got it all wrong here. Sanchez was at #20 when it came to hits and sacks. Coincidentally, people up there were hit LESS, and thus faced LESS pressure. I have posted a thorough meaning of this in some other post - obviously it didn't find you. To give you the breakdown in a nutshell, if your OL gives up more than 2 sacks a game, your QB will be pedestrian at best. (This is a rule of thumb, not a golden rule, mind you; as in last year's case, Tony Romo and Aaron Rodgers still performed with the hits they got, but they are exceptions, not rule.) Jets gave up about 20 sacks 2010, which was good for 8th in the entire league. 20 sacks is a little more than 1 sack a game. That's a protection you need. Maybe not top 3 (= top 10% - THIS is the elite protection; Sanchez never had this.) or top 5 (~= top 20%) but still decent enough. (within top 30% - which Jets pass protection has been for 2 years prior to last year's debacle.) If you give up 40 sacks a game, that places you at #20, squarely on the border for the bottom third. Ok. Maybe the stats are skewed because Jets closely monitored Sanchez's pass attempts in his earlier two years, and didn't throw as many passes consequently. You know what? That doesn't change much. In 2010, the sack rate (the ratio of sacks on 100 drop backs) was 5.33% - and in 2011, it went up to 7.62%. Coincidentally, the ranking on the sack rate is almost identical to the number of sacks given up as well. So now, what say you?
I'd like to make this as clear as I can. Anybody that thinks we're going to need to replace Sanchez after this year has an understanding of football in the area of thinking that the Earth is flat. As in you have no clue what is going on. Here is a stat the Sanchez haters are just going to love. Mark Sanchez's rookie interception percentage. 5.5%. Pretty high right? Probably only an argument for getting rid of him I'm sure you're thinking. Guess what clowns, it turns out this statistic is the strongest correlation we have in relation to winning future Super Bowl rings. Before Sanchez, there have been 7 rookie QB's in the history of the NFL with an INT% over 4.2% in their rookie year. Of the 7, 6 have won at least one super bowl. 12 Super Bowls between them. Only a who's who list of the great all time Qb's no big deal. In order of highest INT% first. Terry Bradshaw (11% 4 rings) Troy Aikman (6.1% 3 rings) Steve Bartowski Mark Sanchez (5.5% ?? rings) John Elway (5.4% 2 rings) Jim Plunkett Peyton Manning Joe Namath (4.4% 1 ring) Sanchez projects to win just over 1.5 Super Bowls from this statistic with about a .74 correlation coefficient. That means you can be damn sure that he's going to win at least one or two Super Bowls an overwhelming percentage of the time aside from career ending injuries. It must be hard to think you know something about football while you're dissing the best quarterback to happen to the Jets since Joe Willie and calling for his head every chance you get. Your opinions should all be video recorded now so they have to be posted on your Facebook timeline forever for future reference. And two hours in the stocks. And a scarlet S on your chest at all future home games beginning in 2014. That is all.
