GH, he's not here to debat, or talk, he's here to preach. His opinion is the only one that counts to him, so don't waste your time or enegry on him. Just add him to Ignore like I did. If someone is unwilling to learn at all, its pointless to try and discuss prospects with them.
This is what Im feeling too. Many dont like the idea of drafting a RB that high, but I think its still a big need despite all of the draft picks spent on it recently. Martin is one of my favorite prospects and would love for the Jets to draft him. In my eyes, Ingram in round 1 and Martin in round 2 would be awesome...
I dont think Ingram is going to be available by 16 anymore. He put up some impressive numbers at the combine.
My two cents... - Ingram or Upshaw? Ingram. I like his base, I like his explosiveness, I like the leverage he uses. That said, I think his value is inflated by his combine performance, and Jets fans expecting him to be a Godsend might be sorely disappointed. I think I would be ecstatic about Upshaw if we had more athletic talent at the linebacker position, but I worry that he's another slow guy on a team that lacks athleticism at the position. I agree with Hurricane that neither is necessarily premiere. I would probably be happier, if the opportunity presents itself, trading down and taking Hightower. - There are four offensive tackles who would all be an upgrade over what we have, and if one of them falls to us, we have to take him. Since they're not cutting Hunter, and there's very little cap room, you'd have to assume this is a bigger priority than they're letting on. My sense is that the Jets jump on Adams or Martin if one of them should fall. I don't see much depth after that, and the likelihood of anyone past these guys coming in and being an improvement is not something I'm willing to bank on in a critical season. - No guards- No first round guards, unless you have the luxury of a loaded roster. Even then, it's dopey. It's largely a technique position, and lots of guys with limited athleticism have succeeded there for many years. As I've stated time and again, the risk of missing on a first round guard is substantial, and the benefits, not so much. The Jets could draft a potential elite guard, and they'd still have a major hole at tackle. - I love Floyd, and so I wouldn't be upset if we made that pick, but I think it would be silly considering the depth of the wide receiver class. I'm willing to bet the offensive personnel is going to be utilized better by Sparano, and we won't be watching an offense where we already know the play before the ball is snapped. -X-
1) I think Ingram is going to be gone before he gets to us and would probably be best in a 4-3 anyway. 2-3) I'd rather have Decastro over Adams or Martin. While you can find guards later on or from the free agent scrap heap, when you're talking about building an elite unit, it can't hurt. Look at what Steve Hutchinson did for Minnesota and Seattle for years. We're talking about locking down 3/5 of the offensive line with Pro Bowl caliber players. Slausson's injury/Sparano's new scheme emphasizes that even more. 4) I think the point about there being depth at WR is overblown. If Floyd is the best pick at 16, I wouldn't bank on there being a guy available later in the draft. You never know when a run is going to be made on a position.
When the Seahawks drafted Hutchinson in round 1, they had already drafted Koren Robinson, who was one of the top receivers in that draft. It was a luxury pick. They had a guy named Walter Jones at left tackle, he was pretty good. They had Todd Weiner and Chris McIntosh, who they had drafted a year earlier, on the other side. The position was young, but there was depth. The Jets are invested in a sieve at the tackle position. Is DeCastro going to be an excellent guard? Sure. But you are just as likely to find an excellent guard later on. That's not necessarily the case at tackle. Proportionately, the value of an excellent guard is really overblown. The Vikings have done a great job running the ball with Steve Hutchinson, but they can't keep a quarterback upright. As great at Hutchinson is, they're probably disproportionately invested in him. Would that they could have taken that money and spent it on a tackle. -X-
Anyways, I cannot believe the amount of analysts and websites who are not considering OLB a major need for the jets. Unreal, Im all for Ingram at the moment.
I agree across the board X. Ingram and upshaw are nice players, but just like you said, neither are premier guys. And I'm with you on hightower, love his versatility and I think he is a more naturally stand up passrusher than the other two. I love decastro, but I'm all about the top OTs. Still favor one if them. What you said about guards mirror you're old comments about safeties that I still adhere to. Just not positoiinal value. And the wr class is too stacked to take Floyd early.
+1, also if Decastro is a pure guard it makes his pick that much more a luxury. Though I dont know if I agree on passing on Floyd. I agree this class is very deep but I think Floyd may have established himself as the next best receiver behind Blackmon
With relation to Upshaw, Bryan Thomas's 40 time at the combine was around 4.5 and he supposedly had all this athleticim coming out. So honestly, time will tell.
Idk go Offense and try to be less stagnant or pick a LB to begin rebuilding the LB core behind harris... Its a tough decision and I'm glad i'm not one to make it Honestly. With that said I believe this league is still one with defense. Giants proved that a Pass rush TRUMPS i repeat TRUMPS ALL the #1 WR cant do anything with Sanchez on the ground regardless Pick up the LB/Passrusher of the future PLEASE
40 times dont exactly have anything to do with linebackers. Tamba Hali ran a 4.75, Lamarr Woodley ran a 4.74, Aldon Smith ran a 4.74, I can keep going. Just because a a linebacker or Dlineman runs a bad 40 doesnt mean he cant be a good pass rusher. 40 times are not really correct drill for LBs. Look for how well a LB runs the pass-drop and hip rotation drill as well as his ten yard split.
I don't disagree with any of your assessments, but at some point, we have to pick a player. Assuming Ingram is off the board, if we're choosing between let's say Upshaw, Floyd, Decastro, Hightower and Mike Adams, who are you taking? Regardless of the depth of the draft or the positional value, I think I'd want Floyd or Decastro.
I knew this would happen, I understand that trust me. The knock on Upshaw right now is that he's tight and perhaps a step slow off the snap, like ive seen on tape. I was simPly trying to point out even Bryan Thomas's numbers who some people including myself hope Upshaw doesn't turn into, don't mean anything. That's why I said we need to wait and see and I understand 40's don't mean everything. Terrell Suggs ran a 4.8 once as a DE. I get it, there are many more drills and a lot of tape to go through to make this decision.
3-4 linebackers in particular need less in the way of straight line speed. The ROLB needs to have some giddy-up in terms of burst speed to get to the QB but the other guys need lateral quickness, flexibility and strength more than straight line speed. They have to be able to get off of blocks and and close the channels that the defensive line create. A good 3-4 ILB is in the right spot at the right time because he's read the play well and avoided/shed the guard coming through to block him. The one problem with Courtney Upshaw and the Alabama defenders in general is that Nick Saban's defense does a lot of gambling. Everybody on that unit has been trained to pick a lane or angle and head for it based on their read and so if you look at their season highlights you see a lot of traps and screens that go for 10-15 yards but very few big plays. The premise of Saban's defense is to put so much pressure on the offense that they can't get big plays off. They do however get caught for a lot of mid-range plays as a result, especially in the run game. They also force a lot of turnovers and get a lot of TFL's and stops at the line because when they guess/read right they are right there with the ball. It's a great defensive strategy at the NCAA level but I'm not sure it breeds sound players at the next level.
I agree. So far, I've seen multiple people compare Upshaw to Woodley. They're almost the exact same size, and Upshaw will probably run a similar 40 time when he runs at Pro Day next month. I'm guessing Upshaw will also improve on his bench press by next month as well. The only question becomes if Upshaw is thought of as a good enough pass rusher to play the outside, or if he's better suited to the inside like Hightower is.
They have similar builds, but Woodley was more "sudden" as Mayock likes to say. Woodley's burst off the line was elite. Upsahws is very good, but not as high. Both were very good with thier hands already wen enterign the NFL. Keep in mind Woodley did a whole lot of riding the bench year one in Pittsburgh. I still like upsahw. Yea he look so-so in drills, but his game tape is different. He shows up, makes plays all over the feild. No he's not JPP, but he is a very, very good 34 OLB prospect. He had no problem gettign out in contain in the national championship game on option plays. He has more than enough speed to cover his side of the feild.
I can't just eliminate depth/positional value though, that's the whole thing. If I were to say who would be highest on my board, I'm guessing DeCastro would be ranked the highest. That said, factoring everything in, and a trade down isn't an option (as it never is with Tanny), I think I'd opt for Mike Adams. OL on this team is important, and a RT that can play LT is a nice thing to have in case something bad happens. I have a feeling that when the dust settles the answer to that question will be Nick Perry. He does things that just about every other highly rated DE/OLB can't or doesn't do. Based on style of play, he's the closest thing to the type of player that traditionally has success at the NFL level. I like to use the word "violent". Great 34 OLBs all have a certain violence to their game, it's not that BS sprint around the tackle like he's back in high school stuff. They get on the tackle, bench him off or just shed him and make plays that way. They worried about Woodley's speed coming out, but you don't need to be THAT fast if you're quick and strong. That's what he was, and that's what Perry is.
