And where did all of that get us? Oh yeah, watching the playoffs at home. Just because my example overstated the time of possession does not make the point any less important. Defensive players, especially pass rushers rotate in and out of the lineup. Most coaches seem to feel that it is better to have a fresh player who can run at full speed than a better player that may be winded. Therefore, much like a receiver who comes out on rushing plays (or is little more than a decoy) a pass rusher does not contribute to the team's success on every defensive play. Offensive linemen and starting quarterbacks rarely come out of the game unless they are injured. It would seem that such players have more opportunities to contribute to the team's success. The problem with comparing players at different positions in the draft is that unless they play the same position you are not making an apples to apples comparison. Upshaw may be the best 3-4 pass rusher in the draft but will be the third or fourth pass rusher taken in this draft. The player I suggested will not only be the first player taken at his position but may be the highest rated player at that position in a decade. In the past, guards didn't make much money so they weren't highly regarded in the draft either. Now that guards are getting huge contracts, they are every bit as hard to obtain in free agency as pass rushers. Despite all of that, moving up for a guard makes you want to club baby seals. Good luck with that.
We dont have an immediate whole at guard. We have a solid LG (who played this whole season with one arm, so assuming he gets healthy, which he should, he should be able to step up his game a good deal) and a RG who is on his way out, but should have one more solid year or two in him. Moore is a leader on the team and key to attempting to pull the locker room together. We cant have a guy like DeCastro, who you want to trade up for, either sitting the bench or taking a capable starters spot. We have too many holes to spend two draft picks on a position that is about 5th or 6th on the totem pole. I dont know what you have against draft a passrusher, a position that this team has lacked since the departure of Abraham. Would you say Ben Grubbs is more essential to the Ravens than Suggs? I would say not, especially considering the Ravens might not even pay Grubbs. Or Chris Snee vs JPP or Justin Tuck? I would give the nod to JPP or Tuck... Or looking at a guard taken around our pick in Mike Iupati by the 49ers... Iupati or Aldon Smith? IMO, No doubt Aldon Smith.
Very unlikely that Decastro will even be there when we pick, so this point is kind of moot. Without legitimate skill players, even the best offensive lines will struggle. The relationship is completely symbiotic. No one said they had to be flashy, but having star players on offense is obviously important. The Giants have Nicks and Cruz, and a better running back tandem than we do (for now). The Packers have Jennings, Nelson, Finley, and a good supporting cast. The Pats have Gronk, Welker, and Hernandez. And a running back who never fumbles. At this point, our running back situation relies solely on the health of SG and the emergence of McKnight. IMO, Tone and Keller would be the perfect compliment to a #1 WR threat, but we don't have that guy right now. That's why if Richardson or an elite WR prospect is there at 16, Tanny needs to pull the trigger. It makes no sense to spend big cash on a potential headache like either of the Jacksons, so add via draft.
I am starring to warm up to Glenn. Drafting an O-Lineman will show our commitment to developing our QB. Come draft day anything could happen. If Upshaw is available you have to draft him. Ideally I'd go Upshaw/WR/safety from Boise in rounds 1-3. Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk
My question about the Glenn pick would be how much of a drop off there is between him and someone in the 2nd or 3rd round. It seems as though Glenn needs polish so I would think that an Upshaw in the 1st and an O.L. in the 2nd or 3rd would be a better way to go.
Great post, this is how I feel, I'm cautiously optimistic about Upshaw, he just didn't wow any one with his pass rush skills at the senior bowl.
Who ever said it got us anywhere? I was just pointing out how ridiculous your comment was in suggesting we'd only be able to hold the ball for 20 minutes a game. The fact that a pass rusher may need to take a few plays off during the course of a game doesn't make the position less important. The most important position in football is QB. Knocking the QB on his ass is right up there on the list of important positions. Of course protecting the QB is right up there too, but interior linemen aren't the ones most important in protecting the QB, it's the tackle position you should be most concerned with. Trading up to take any player would be foolish IMO given all of our needs. Trading up to take an interior linemen, a position that is fairly low on the importance list would be ridiculous, especially when we already have 2 starters. Trading up on a regular basis like Tanny likes to do creates holes. If we take an OL in the first round I should hope it's a RT - a position where we have one of said holes.
If a player is worth having I dont mind trading up (so long as it does not cost us a 1st round pick) because history shows you are just as likely to get a good player as a UDFA thna you are from a later draft pick.
It's going to take more than a late round pick to move up in the first round. You said in another thread that our draft picks outside of round 1 haven't been good and I posted details showing that is not the case. I wonder if you're making a similarly incorrect statement here, but I don't know. What are you considering a late round pick and where are the numbers to backup your claim?
I dont think my statement was (that) incorrect as I didnt think that our picks after the 1st round have been especially productive or impressive, if anything your list confirmed that belief rather than dispelling it. We have not been terrible drafters but similarly we have never really struck gold (outside of Harris, who was a 2nd rond pick after all). I wasnt necessarily talking about moving up in the first round I was talking about moving up in the draft generally - if you have a chance to get a player you really want and think will contribute then I have no real issue with giving up a later pick to do so as you get just as good players as UDFAs as you get in the later rounds of the draft (we have more starters on our D that were UDFAs than we have players drafted after the first round (4 UDFAs compared to 1 2nd round pick and 2 3rd round picks)).
That's not quite accurate. There are good UDFAs, but the problem is there are no guarantees you'll get them. They can sign with any team they choose. When you draft a player, you have exclusive rights to him for a year. Unless you have some foreknowledge that the prospect wants to play for you and will sign as a UDFA (like the Jets should have done with Scotty McKnight last season), then you should draft players with those low picks, not treat them with utter disdain and give them away as Tanny does. In the 5th - 7th rounds is often where you can find valuable OL depth, STs players (including punters and kickers), and other good depth. Tanny is an idiot in the way he misuses and throws away those picks.
The bolded text just shows how incompetent Tanny is. You have one of the best defensive minds in football as your HC, so you're just gonna give him a bunch of jags to work with rather than prime talent??? That's insane. Tanny has used too many picks on offense and wasted too many picks. The insanity must stop. You yourself say he hasn't done a very good job outside of round 1. That's awful and will prevent a team from ever reaching the SB. That has got to change if the Jets hope to win a SB any time soon.
The Jets are absolutely fine at guard. It was be incredibly stupid to draft a guard in the 1st round with glaring holes at tackle. Moreover, the cost is way too high should a guard fail. At best, he becomes a backup guard. A failed first round tackle could always shift inside to guard. A guard is a guard because he's typically not athletic enough to play tackle. Beyond that, the Jets are miserable at difference maker positions like offensive tackle and wide receiver. They run a 3-4 defense and don't have a single above average 3 down athlete at linebacker. These are problems. It's probably a safe, reasonable, and affordable play to assume that a healthy Moore and Slausson will rebound next season, provided they get to play next to a competent offensive tackle. -X-
I think maybe you should review a few other teams drafts over the past 5 years then. We've done just fine after the first round. Do we have a Tom Brady type pick, no, but we have plenty of contributors and some very good ones (Leon Washington, Brad Smith).
I am not trying to be argumentative or anything, just my feeling is that we (and maybe we are worse/the same/better than other teams at this) do not seem to get a great return out of the draft (outside of the 1st round) and so for that reason I have no real issue with trading one or more of those later picks (whether in getting productive FAs or to get a player we really want). I wouldnt want to see us burn the whole draft to move up a couple of spots but at the same time I do not really care about losing a pick in rounds 4-7 to get someone we really want in rounds 2 or 3.
Thinking as you do that the Jets don't do very well in the middle and lower rounds of the draft, instead of giving those picks away, why wouldn't you want a better Scouting Dept. and GM for the Jets so that we can get some good players with those picks?
I would love to have that, as I posted before its disappointing that the scouting team seems to be the one area of the Jets that has escaped a major overhaul to date.
2nd round plus since 2007: David Harris, Shonn Greene, Matt Slauson, Vladimir Ducasse, Joe McKnight, John Conner, Kenrick Ellis, Bilal Powell, Jeremy Kerley, Greg McElroy, Scotty McKnight. That's not the contributors, that's ALL the players selected that are still on the roster. That's less than 3 players a year after the first round and doesn't take into account the fact that all but 3 of the players are from 2010 and 2011. It also doesn't take into account that probably half the people on the list will not be on the Jets roster in two years time. The Jets do about as poorly as anybody in the NFL at this point in using the draft to pick talent.
David Harris, Eric Smith, Shonn Greene, Joe McKnight, Dwight Lowery, Brad Smith, Leon Washington, John Conner, Jeremy Kerley, Drew Coleman, Matt Slauson, Chansi Stuckey All of those players are or were solid contributors. The fact that the Jets traded some away, or didn't re-sign some shouldn't be a negative for the scouting department. Why they even traded Lowery is a mystery. Leon had a severe injury and wanted too much money. Smith was a very solid contributor who was overpaid by a division rival. Coleman as a useful player under Rex and Stuckey was used as part of the deal to get Sanchez. I don't see how any of those guys not still being on the Jets is a fault of the scouting department. The biggest problem is that we haven't had a lot of 2nd and 3rd round picks to work with because Tanny keeps trading them away. edit: sorry, I glazed over the "since 2007" part. Not sure why you wouldn't count 2006?
LT - agree with the vaccum in the 2nd and 3rd rounds being a problem. many teams make a killing in those rounds (giants quickly come to mind). can get probowl talent without paying the mega salary, at least out of the gate. wouldnt kill me if we dealt #16 for extra 2/3's - if the board dictates. it appears to be a pretty deep draft - especially at our positions of need.
