Top free agents for next season

Whatever. You obviously haven't been watching the NFL for very long and/or are not a student of the game. You are the only one who is foolish. Grow up.

 

Tannenbaum is just like Bradway was. He trades up regularly and makes spectacular bets on players in the process with average returns at best. He makes big splashy free agent signings of players who aren't really that good. He got handed a windfall of talent early on with a big draft class (2000 for Bradway, 2006 for Tannenbaum.)

This is almost the exact same thing we went through from 2001 to 2005 with Bradway. The difference is that Rex Ryan managed to pull the defense together for more than one year and Nick Mangold did not go out for the season last year.

 

Um, it sounds like we do agree???

 

It's common sense, but not in the way you claim. The very act of trading up can cause you to NOT get value. You overpay for talent. It isn't rocket science, guy.

No, you don't have to jump. Go study how the best teams in NFL history were built. You won't see all that trading up BS. You see real "value" picks. You don't see GMs falling in love with players. They don't have to have the "best" prospect at a position or a bunch of stars. They don't have to make a big splash. They don't create holes at other positions or rob the team of depth from constant trading up. Those are facts, not opinions.

Your logic is flawed too. Just because A is true (except in this case it isn't) doesn't mean that B is necessarily true. I said that trading up occasionally can be ok and in those situations can be the best move. It's just not something you should do year in and year out.

The Pats are GREAT at acquiring picks, but then don't know what to do with them once they get them since Pioli left. There has been a time or two over the last several years where NE actually should have traded up to get a key player/prospect that they needed. They could afford to trade up in those situations, because they had acquired so many additional picks in previous drafts and in subsequent drafts. Either their talent evaluation skills are obviously lacking or they just got greedy.

That's all I'm gonna say on the subject since it seems obvious to me that we're never going to agree. I guarantee you that if you go study how the best teams were built, you won't see all those trade ups. For that matter, look at how this year's 49ers, Giants, Pats, Steelers, Ravens and Texans teams were built. I'll be shocked if there's one trade up among them.

 

This team went 8-8 after swapping out nearly 20 players with only 6 weeks of training camp.Meanwhile the team had many young guys playing prominent roles for the first time IE Greene,Conner,Wilson,Wilkerson,Mcknight(as returner) & Westerman. That's ALOT of moving parts with an accelerated time span to make it all come together. From about week 8 onward last season I stated that whether planned or not it was a transition year. Fast forward to now where we still have those young starters who are gonna get better and there is going to be minimal turnover unless an upgrade is presented. With a moderate amount of cap space, a decent amount of draft picks & hopefully an improved offense..I don't think being playoff contenders is as far off as many believe.

Does the team have holes? Yeah it does.But every team in the NFL has holes..and it's about just getting in the playoffs & hoping you get hot. The days of building up a complete roster 3 deep across the board are over. The modern salary cap has destroyed that notion.You build top heavy w/ a few key contributors, plug as many holes as you can, scheme elsewhere & hope you stay healthy. Jets have some very good players at the top with Revis,Harris,Mangold,Brick,Holmes,Keller & Pouha. They also some aforementioned young players who maybe ready to breakout. Time for Tanny to plug the remaining holes at the top of the depth chart.

 

Ducasse says hi. He played one game in his 2 year career.

Charles Brown, drafted AFTER Ducasse, played 11 games during the same span, and started 5 games this season. That he started in New Orleans has to mean something if you don't understand what Brown pick means. What the fuck are you talking about? Are you telling me Ducasse, a project with potentially higher ceiling was better pick than Charles Brown was? What are you smoking? Jesus fucking Christ.

Just to give you a sense of the colossal stupidity, let me add this bits of scouting report:

In other words, he was a very good prospect even for Callahan's complicated blocking schemes - he was coming from a major football program,
had a lot of success against top-tier competitions and still have good upside.

Rather, they did a piss-poor job at scouting. I have been wrong in that account too (even though I didn't particularly like Ghost pick) but the wisdom has been out there for decades. If you don't know what I am talking about, I strongly urge you to read "Practical Modern Basketball" by none other than John Wooden himself. He emphasizes the importance of mental competence of the player - which Gholston flat-out failed at. If the scouting department was this deficient with assessment of 1st round pick, then the entire department should be fired.

And all the trading up resulted in paper-thin squad, which is the problem Jets now have. BPA is NOT about giving your pick away for certain targeted player. BPA, from what I understand, is to get the best player available AT YOUR TURN. Not by trading up.

Jets drafting philosophy of late is NOT BPA. It more closely resembles WIN NOW GOD DAMN IT philosophy.

Jets had that option in Braylon last year - and the genius of a GM made him walk. Talent level along the defensive side hasn't been addressed much lately - more specifically, the LB corps and safeties. OL should have been addressed with mid to low round picks regularly (it takes time to groom them), but were consistently ignored. No fucking wonder this team is in such a shamble. If this is the best drafting they can do, they need a new career - like knitting or cooking.

And lastly:

Hoping for the players to get hot at the precise timing is NOT how you should be coaching in NFL. Sure, luck plays a rather large role in any success story, but that doesn't mean you should pray for your share of luck.

Rather, the fact that you can only have a finite budget puts a huge premium on having a successful system installed in the franchise. Once the system is there, then as long as the leader is there to run the system, it WILL run. It is those leaders that you should try to retain as much as possible even at the cost of overpaying. For now, Jets do not quite have an effective system on either side of the ball, and while I am confident that Ryan can install a good defensive system, given sufficient time and talent, I don't know if Sparano will be able to install sustainable system on the offensive side of the ball. Patriots have failed miserably on setting up the system on their defense, and it cost them their ring this February.

 

LOL at "this team is in shambles". We missed the playoffs by a game, and despite having a bottom quarter of the league level QB playing (stats wise) who was tops in the NFL in turnovers, we went 8-8. Didn't the Giants go 8-8 last year, add relatively nobody, and then win a superbowl. We aren't the Colts.

Every team has holes and flaws. I find it hilarious that people would cite the Ravens and Niners (who since Rex has been here haven't been as successful as us) for "how to build a team" when both lost their CG like we did last year.

I find it even funnier when people talk about the "genius" team building of the Giants. This is how the Giants "genius" came into play: they were so shitty one season they got the number 4 pick; and it just happened to be the season prior to one of the all time great QB classes coming out. And the best QB of the three pro bowl QBs (four superbowls wins, five appearances, since that 2004 class) was a Manning whose dad basically made a mockery of the sport and refused to play for SD. Giants were next in line for a QB.

Holy shit, SUCH BRILLIANCE! In other words, the Jets haven't had the brilliant planning and foresight to not only be atrociously bad earning the a high pick in the Tanny era, but also do it in a year where three world class QBs were going to be available.

The Giants have way more holes than us: their RT was statistically worse than Hunter. Their run game was worse. Their defense was worse. But their QB (which had nothing to do with team building and everything to do with a random year they were fortunate enough to have a top 4 pick in a year where THREE pro bowl QBs came out) was UNREAL and ours was trash.

Do I even need to mention the bench warmer who the genius Belichick didn't enpven realize he had until WE showed it to him? Yes, true brilliant team building. The Pats, like Indy, are an awful team that wins bc it's a QB league and they have one of the all time greatest.

To me it is ABSURD to sit here and bemoan being an incomplete team when we actually are one of the more complete teams over Tanny's tenure. We just haven't been lucky enough to be able to draft a pro bowl QB.

 

One more tidbit before I sleep. Winning the draft is about finding starting players. If your drafted players become starters, you are doing well. If they become probowlers, you've exceeded.

In 2009 the NE Patriots had 12 selections. The Jets had three. Of those 12, ONLY TWO became starters in this league (Chung and Volmer) All three of the Jets players were starters (Sanchez, Shonn, Slauson).

If the goal is to build a team through the draft, we did better at it with three picks than the Pats did with 12.

And lastly, the likelihood of getting a contribution NFL player from rounds 4 on are not only less than 10%, but the drop off is a steady steep decline from round 1-7. If trading a late round pick when the likelihood of that pick ever playing for you is less than 10% ensures that you have better odds of getting a starter or above average starter, why wouldn't you trade up? If you can get 4 players with 5 picks, it is the same as getting 4 players with 12 picks.

22 starters on a team. Tanny's drafting has acquired 8 on offense, 7 on defense. Pouha is a draftee from the previous regime. So basically this "inefficient" method of drafting has resulted in 73% of our starting lineup. The Giants method? Results in 73% of their lineup drafted.

The difference between us and the Giants (besides unreal fortune)? We haven't drafted a pass rusher, they have 3-4. Their QB is one of the games top 4, ours is one of the games lowest 10. End the thread.

 

I just want to clarify this one point. Ducasse played in 12 games last year. And yes, that was mostly as an extra lineman/TE on running plays, but he was at least in there getting experience.

 

You are correct...on the surface. You fail to acknowledge that the Pats also added 4 other players in that draft who added to the depth of the team and started games (Brace, Orenberger, Pryor, and Edelman.) plus that was the year they picked up Kyle Love and Dane Fletcher as UDFA's both of whom were in the regular defensive rotations by the end of the year.

When I first became a HS HC, one of the truest pieces of advice I got, was when a veteran HC came up to me and said. "football is a numbers game". It was true in HS, and its true in the NFL. Its definitely not just about "the starters or the stars"

BB had a bunch of misses in that 2009 draft, but simply because he was able to amass 12 picks he got 6 players who helped him get to a superbowl (8 if you count the UDFAs

Its all about the numbers. Its kind of ironic that THIS year the Pats "only" have 7 picks right now, while the Jets have 10. Its a moderate role reversal. Lets see what the Jets can do with that many picks

 

I'm not gonna continue arguing about Ducasse. My thoughts on him as a prospect are well documented. However, you're pointing to 1 pick over a 2 year stretch as being the reasoning that the team didn't go BPA. I'm not sure I understand that. 1 player does not make a draft. Additionally Ducasse was selected where many felt he was going to go. YOU may disagree and have felt that he should've been a mid to late round pick, but consensus after the pick was made was that the value was there.

Hand picking one random O-linemen who went after Ducasse and who has been more successful is merely hindsight..We could do that with all 30 teams for every draft over the last 15 years..It just doesn't suit the argument or prove anything.

 

I love how this Pats fan is citing mediocre to horrible players (who by the way got the Pats exactly what this year) as great drafting. Filling out your roster is easy. Getting solid contributors is challenging. Getting elite playmakers is extreme hard. And since Tanny has been here he's done a significantly better job at it than NE.

Again, look at Indy. That's what the Pats are! A garbage team with an all time great QB (and obviously BB > than that clown Caldwell). They only made the SB bc Lee Evans dropped a game winning touchdown against their joke no talent defense. Then they proceeded to let the Giants waltz down the field and their best player on offense outside of Brady is a 5'7 possession receiver who was too short to catch a game sealing pass.

The Pats sans Brady win MAYBE 5 games. If the Jets had Brady and the Pats Sanchez, your entire clam chowder joke city would be trashing BB for taking mediocre white guys every year while hoarding picks. I don't have a problem with Pats fans here, but at least be realistic about what your team is: Brady, Wilfork, Gronk, Welker, and then a bunch of total trash everywhere. Outside of Gronk, none was drafted while Tanny has been running the Jets and collecting a ton of pro bowl talent. Again, Tanny hasn't been lucky enough to get that elite QB, which in this league can take a 2-14 team and win the division (see Indy).

 

Couldn't agree more.
Rex/Tanny need to make wiser choices in FA and not just go for the big name but see if the can plug a few holes with mid level FA's.
This years draft class is probably one of our most important in years. We are on the doorstep, we need to make the right decisions to see if we can get through the door.

 

the difference is the Giants have a good QB and we have sanchez - with a poor quality QB (who I pray turns things around this year) we need the rest of the team to be above avg to great to compensate for Sanchez - whereas the Giants have a good QB that can compensate for the rest of the team

 

I completely agree with you about the state of the Jets -- things went just about as badly as possible for us in most phases of the game last year and we still ended up just a few blown plays away from making the playoffs. There's a lot of work to be done on this roster, but few teams in the NFL are building off a better core than Revis/Mangold/Ferguson/Harris.

I disagree with you about the Giants though, they are an excellently constructed team. Their ridiculous talent and depth up front allows them to compensate for holes elsewhere in their defense. They also have good depth all across their offense which allows them to build from within (guys like Cruz, Bradshaw, and Ballard all started deep down their bench before growing into starting roles.)

Obviously Eli Manning is the straw that stirs their drink, but I don't think it's fair to question the job that Jerry Reese and Tom Coughlin have done there.

 

I'm not trashing the Giants. I'm using them to show you that even the superbowl winners have holes in many places. That was. 7-7 team that had the Cowboys ice their own kicker, among a million other things go right, and a QB who was PHENOMENAL to carry them.

Nicks and Cruz are great, but would they be with Sanchez throwing to them? We have all seen Welker/Branch/Moss without Brady. The QB position is worth more than the rest of the team combined, and the Giants have a guy who was among the best this year. And as I wrote before, it wasn't brilliant team building that got them Eli. It was having the number four pick in a year with three all pro level QBs, and a whiny ex player dad who didn't like San Diego.

Coughlin and Reese have built the typical modern day successful NFL squad: lots of holes covered up with great QB play.

How this relates to the Jets is that bc of our terrible QB, we have to rely that every other unit on the field is excellent, and that's just not realistic or even possible. And yet despite this unrealistic expectation that NO TEAM has met, we bitch about our GM and HC who have done a damn good job of building a playoff team that has been THIS close to the SB. smfh.

 

We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one, because I don't think the team is nearly as good as you do.

 

Stop. You're making too much sense for GS. He obviously is a nasty, bitter individual, whose name tells us all we need to know about what kind of character he is. BB does a fantastic job acquiring picks. Where he could do a lot better is in how to use those picks. If he had traded up once or twice and made better selections with others, you guys would have probably the greatest dynasty of all time. Lucky for the rest of us that he didn't.