Sorry, but unless I misunderstand what you are saying, you are flat out wrong in your initial statement. I totally agree with the insanity of trading up constantly, but Tanny has invested more picks overall into the offense (including trades) than he has in defense during his tenure as GM. You forgot the trades for Braylon, Holmes, Schlauderaf, the trade up for Greene, the trade up for Sanchez, the trade up for Keller. Those picks have to be counted too. Here the Jets have one of the top DCs in the NFL as HC and they've yet to supply him with any real impact players/difference makers on D except for Revis. That's just stupid. Yes, trading up is at the crux of the Jets' problems on both sides of the ball, and why there is no depth. Tanny has wasted too many picks, taken projects too high, and is getting worse and worse in the draft.
The thing that jumped out at me when I put together that list is how few 2nd round picks the Jets have exercised in the last 5 seasons. That's the second most valuable asset a team has each season and the Jets keep giving theirs away one way or the other. I totally agree on the LB's. I smell an old declining crew there with one guy in the middle propping things up. The Jets either need to clearly identify the young guys on the roster they are planning to give snaps too or they need to go find them elsewhere. I think the Jets front seven is probably the most likely group in the league to suddenly collapse at this point and turn the Jets defense into a laughingstock. Not that they don't care about their performance but the NT is 33 heading into next season and the LILB is 32 and lost a step last season. Those are the two most important positions in maintaining strength in a 3-4. The LOLB is really Calvin Pace, although he is listed at ROLB at the moment. He's 31 and while he hasn't declined much he's manning the third important position in terms of maintaining power control in the front seven, lining up opposite the TE and RT.
First off, I never advocated to cut Pace, I want him on this team along side a guy like Upshaw. I understand the terms of his contract, he wouldnt want to be on this team IMO with the influx of two rookies who would come in and start. So he'd be either cut or traded out of demand. (I understand Curry can be left to groom in the background but usually 2nd rounders are meant to start, in most cases.) I say two OLBs in the top 2 rounds is risky because we have HUGE holes on this team. I explained it in my post but I will reiterate it. We need to find a RT prospect in the second if no solid WR is there (Only WRs id draft over a RT is Sanu or Jeffery and that is if they fell into the second). We CANNOT stay with Hunter at RT, we need to bring in a kid to challenge his spot and/or replace him out of the gate. We need to protect our QB, its the second most important thing to come out of this offseason IMO. This team can very well compete in 2012, our plan wont be for 2013 or 2014 plain and simple, we are always looking to win now. We need to add speed, youth, and fill our needs this season in order to figure out whether Sanchez is going to work out, Tanny is going to work out, and this overall team is going to work out. We have no time to sit back and wait a few years while wasting Mangold, DBrick, Revis, and Harris's premiere years.
I understand your worry about other holes. That said draft to fill holes is not the best way to go. BPA, in position of need. It should be the mantra. Even with a round one OLB, we have a need just around the corner next year as Pace's contract expires. Curry would be a great pick up in the second round and give our defense a very scary bookend OLB set for the near future. RT, S, and WR are needs. I add Guard and ILB to that list as well. We are not filling them all in the draft, not even close. That means we have to count on FA some, and not get upgrades at others. That is the current NFL team building atmoshpere. We can add good prospects at S and RT in the 3rd and 4th. FA would have already needed to address WR in this case. Scott will be back next year, but another one like it sees him out the door before long. Every team has flaws and we are no exception. This will continue to be the case in a cap driven league. One way to help make up for spotty saftey play is get the the QB faster. Thats exactly what double dipping at OLB would attempt to do.
I agree that having both of them would improve this defense big time. And trust me, if it ended up that way, I would have no problem with the fact. But this team is strapped for cash and we cannot risk drafting for future talent in the first 3 rounds. We need to strike it big and get some starters on this team. We need to draft players who will come out and make an impact for this team. It obviously can go both ways, and I agree drafting BPA is always a good strategy but we are very limited this year from the looks of it. If we end up with Hunter as our starting RT and some long shot vet FA at WR because we doubled up at OLB in the second, this team wont improve very much at all. I know its hard to expect us to come into this draft and fill every need but god damn do we need to give it a shot. Again, this is my personal opinion and I respect yours, I just think differently of what we should do.
I hear ya, alot of these threads have you, Joe k, and I going round and round. The best part of it is none of us have turned it into a DIAF faggot attacking style rant. I do say the state of the draft forum as a whole is much, much better to be in this year. The ability to disagree without a war is nice. Intelligence without arrogance is fun to be around. I think Hunter is getting the RT job again this year. I'm not overly happy about it, but I also assume we are going to see alot more help for him. 2 TE sets with a TE helping or chipping and going out, Guard help, ect. Even if he's beat out by a man like Ducasse, that player will probly be gettign the same thing. RT is going to be a weakness of ours entering the season, but limiting the empty sets will help cover that up. We have immediate needs and long tearm needs. The best bet, i think, is to draft with an eye on both. So if we go RT, Receiver, S. Well it would suck, but I would understand. Same goes if we go OLB, S, OLB or some variety of this. It doesn't cover everything, buyt it makes strides to fix at least somethign in a big way. Maybe we enter next season falded in someone, but with a big hope and new idenity in another. That I can handle.
Completely agree man, its nice that everyone can share their opinion around here now instead of being in fear or intimidated. Even if people are critical or disagree its usually either constructive criticism or a healthy argument. I think that and the posters around here make this section the best on the site. I'm probably bias because I like to talk draft the most but there havent been many problems stemming from this forum at all, its really a bright spot around here for sure. Personally, I think Hunter was kept for insurance which sort of makes sense.Yes he was horrible but if we cut him and dont turn out with a vet or solid rookie we end up with Duccase. Thats really the WORST case scenario for the RT spot so the front office tried to avoid that. I still think we will target a RT if there is a viable option left over (2nd or 3rd). If not, and this will sound strange, but dont be surprised if we ended up with Dwayne Allen at 47. It sounds bad right now but having Keller and Allen helping the passing and blocking on the line while also incorporating the two TE set could really help add a new dimension to this offense as well as go along with what Sparano likes. This statement is correct and incorrect for me. I really want to see what we do in FA first then we can go and decide whats our best bet. I think our goal should be to come out of this offseason and hope for a haul like the 49ers had, a few rejects that end up contributing and a few future prospects. That way we can try to get the best out of the whole team all at once, similar to what the 49ers had, no one on that team didnt contribute. All 53 men had something to do with the team and where they got, if we come out the same way next year we have a huge shot to come out and contend for a Superbowl.
Not quite true. In your post, you said, "If we were a rebuilding team I'd say its worth a shot, cut Pace, and rebuild at OLB but we can't afford to rely on two rookies to start on this team and/or not fill another position of need. " Further what you just said doesn't make sense to me and probably isn't true. Even if the Jets draft two OLBs this year, it doesn't mean that Pace wouldn't want to be on the team, or that both rookies would start. He would NOT be cut this year. The dead money hit would be too large, but even if it weren't because as you said Rex tries to "win now" he would probably keep Pace to help mentor the two rookies and to try to keep some stability at the position. We don't need to find a RT in the 2nd round. IMO, you're going way too far. Particularly with Rex seeking to "win now" do you really think he'd be content starting a rookie at RT? I don't, not for one minute. I think the RT is best addressed via FA with someone like Anthony Collins, Pat McQuistan, Ryan O'Callaghan, Khalif Barnes, or an older vet like Ryan Diem or Kareem McKenzie and then drafting an OT prospect somewhere in rounds 3-5. For that matter, if Tanny could clear enough cap space, and they are satisfied that his back won't be a recurrent problem, they could possibly sign Jared Gaither and the RT spot would be very well taken care of for years. I agree that Hunter cannot remain at RT, but at least for now he's still on the team, so I'm not convinced that Rex thinks that Hunter needs to be replaced. I do agree that behind OLB, RT is the second biggest need, but again it doesn't have to be addressed in the 1st or 2nd round. I think it's wildly optimistic and even homeristic to expect the Jets to contend in 2012. Rex might make that proclamation, but we know how smart he isn't in that regard. There are too many question marks surrounding this team to expect that they will be a competitor for the SB this season. Among the major questions are will the offense be any better under Sparano than it was under Schotty? Will Sanchez improve having the same stiff as his QB coach? Will Sanchez and Holmes be able to patch things up? Will however the Jets address the RT spot solve the problem? Will they add another RB? Will they add another WR and will he be effective? Will Rex truly learn his lessons from last year, and become more involved with the offense and be in better control of the team and locker room? Will the offense really be more disciplined under Sparano? Will the Jets be able to upgrade at P? Will they be able to adequately address their inability to cover TEs? Will the pass rush improve. Will Wilkerson, Ducasse, Wilson and Ellis show marked improvement this year? Will Tanny make smart, prudent moves in FA and in the draft to address most of the Jets' holes/depth, or will he trade away half of his draft picks again because he's fallen in love with some player or players? The biggest concern is Sanchez. If he still struggles with accuracy and reading Ds, then the team will struggle no matter how well other issues are addressed, and the Jets will in all likelihood, be starting over next season with a new starting QB.
I agree. This site is a LOT nicer/better place to be than it was 3-4 months ago. What happened? I took a break from Jets' sites during the last half of the season due to some family and work issues (plus I knew the team wasn't going to make the playoffs and I was royally pissed at how the team was playing.). I liked the intelligent discussion that could be found here, but absolutely hated the rudeness, the arrogance, the childish name calling and personal attacks. Unfortunately, I think you're right about Hunter. I think I read somewhere that his salary is guaranteed this season. That's probably why he wasn't cut last week. He will probably be starting unless Ducasse or a rookie beat him out (if they draft an OT). Personally, I'd rather they just take the cap hit and get rid of Hunter's butt. I don't even want him on the team, but it looks as if he will be. I definitely agree that they need to draft both for the short term and long term. They've gotten too few contributions from their last couple of years of draft picks in their rookie seasons.
The Jets have spent way too much value trying to consolidate value on both sides of the ball but the overall effect has been critical on the offensive side. If Sanchez doesn't work out the Jets will basically be close to oh-fer-5 years on that side of the ball. The trades for Edwards and Holmes and company added some value but that value has been just as iffy as exercising picks would be. The 3rd and the 5th for Edwards as an example turned into a bit more than a season and a half of quality WR play before Edwards went away. Holmes is a different story. You can make an argument that Holmes was over-priced at any price given what we know now. Little Terrell Owens is not valuable at all. He's got to be the whole deal, and Terrell Owens has been good everywhere he went regardless of the quality of the QB or the offensive system he was put in. Holmes has never caught more than 79 balls in a season and has not been a clear #1 anywhere. He needs to STFU and prove that he is a #1 before he starts demanding that the offense revolve around him. Wayne Chrebet caught 84 passes for a 1-15 team that was completing 53.9% of it's passes. Keyshawn caught another 63 for them. Holmes wouldn't have caught squat on that team.
