Philip Rivers is the fith elite QB in the NFL right now. His huge off-season this year looked like one of Eli's standard seasons. Roethlisberger and Rivers are not on quite the same tier as Brady, Brees and Rodgers at this point but they're still elite. If Eli and the Giants win the Super Bowl this year then 4 of the last 7 Super Bowls will have been won by a non all-world QB, given that Roethlisberger while in the top 5 is definitely not on the same plane as Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Peyton in his prime.
Right. So where would you stick Eli among current QBs? I personally would put him 6th assuming a healthy Peyton. If you go solely on stats he's still 8th (behind Rivers and Romo), but I do think you need to look at playoffs records, #'s, etc.
I have to put Eli ahead of Rivers b/c of his postseason success and Rivers' lack of postseason success. Even if Eli loses he will have taken 2 less talenated than the averagae Charger teams to SBs.
I think Eli Manning is a very good QB who is fortunate enough to play for an organization that knows how to get to Super Bowls. I don't really think he is even top 10 at this point although he's hovering somewhere around there. If I wanted to win it now with a neutral team the QB's I would take over Eli without batting an eye: Tom Brady Drew Brees Ben Roethlisberger Aaron Rodgers Matt Ryan QB's I would probably take but it would be a hard choice: Philip Rivers (the injury questions) Matthew Stafford (the injury questions) Matt Schaub (the injury questions) After that the combination of things that Eli brings to the table as an 8 year vet with a lot of playoff experience begin to weigh more heavily and I wouldn't likely take anybody over him. I definitely wouldn't take Tony Romo, who is a more dynamic passer, because I know Tony Romo is a big-time screwup in the clutch. I wouldn't take Cam Newton because I don't think Cam Newton is more likely to win it all next season than Eli is. I might build around Newton more readily but I wouldn't take him to win next season. When all is said and done Eli is probably going to the hall of fame if he wins it all this year. That said, he will rarely if ever have been a top 5 QB in any season that he played.
At this point I'd take Eli over Ryan(no brainer), Rivers(overrated stat guy) and Schaub(overrated stat guy). Heck, in a big game I'd take Eli over Peyton.
ehhh I think this is a 'prisoner of the moment' type comment Postseason QB rating Eli-79 Peyton-88 TD's Eli-10 (8 games) Peyton-32 (19 games) INT's Eli-7 (8 games) Peyton-19 (19 games) Yds/att Eli-6.43 Peyton-7.51 Obviously Eli has the better record (5-3 vs 9-10), but Peyton has suffered from some terrible defenses, unlike Eli.
It's not #s, it's making plays to win games. Eli does that more consistently than peyto, at least he has in his 2 runs. It's easy to blame the defenses of Indy but the reason Peyton and the Colts don't have more SB apps and wins is b/c of the QB not the defense. The Colts D has allowed 18.7 PPG in regulation in postseason The Giants D has allowed 17.1 PPG That's not a huge difference especially since the Giants D has a shut out(minus the 2 pts the O gave up) and the Colts D had a game where they gave up 41.
Agree to disagree I guess. The numbers tell the whole story, of every minute of every game. These 'plays to win games' are just the last plays of the game. IMO it's not appropriate to give a QB credit for making the last couple plays to win the game but not fault him for playing relatively poorly quarters 1-3 and part of the 4th. Just my 2 cents. Even with that, you would need to go back to every game Peyton played and showed where he didn't make these 'plays.' Obviously you can't offhand due to the long list of playoff games he's been in. I can tell you though, he did put his team in FG range to beat us last year inside 2 minutes, but Sanchez countered on the next drive to set Folk up. When I look at Eli's postseason success, I see 3 one and dones where he played lousy in all of them. A SB run where he played medicore, carrying his top defense and the luckiest SB catch of all time. Gets full credit for this SB run though. Again, not arguing with you per se, just a difference of opinion.
Earlier in his career Peyton would choke even though he never really played poorly in the playoffs. Peyton still won a sb, lost in the superbowl to a crazy talented Saints team, and lost to us last season against a good defense and still only lost because of a last minute TD drive started with a 50 yard return by Cro.
So Sanchez won playoff games and it wasn't because of the defense and running game. This year when he doesn't have that, he doesn't even make the playoffs. Sanchez is clutch. Makes big plays. Definately has some merit to it, but what about the last 3 weeks of the season. The jets had the ball inside the dolphins redzone with a chance to take the lead with under 5 minutes in the last game of the season to give you a chance at the playoffs, and he throws an interception. And he wasn't even pressured that play as far as I can remember (could be wrong about that). Bottom line is, you can't talk about how damn clutch he is, and not pay attention to the other situations when he fails. Sanchez, and only Sanchez blew your guys' opportunity at the playoffs. You can say other things went wrong before that, but it's like when a kicker misses a fieldgoal at the end of a game. Sanchez might not have been responsible for being behind in the first place, but with a chance to win it, he threw a horrible pass. And yea I know you guys weren't going to the playoffs regardless but I sure as hell hope that wasn't Sanchez' mindset.
The #s never tell the whole story, Peyton has had a few good games where his #s have been skewed a bit but he's made incredibly big mistakes at terrible times in those games. Let's look: -1999 lost to Ten 19-16 at home, tacked on late, garbage time TD to make it look closer than it was -2000 lost to one of the legendary choking defenses of all time by putting up just 3 pts in the 2nd half and OT losing 23-17 in OT -2002 was SHUT OUT, the D was terrible but you can win a game giving up 41 pts- you can't win not scoring a single point. -2003 throws 4 INTs, takes safety in loss to Colts. Polian whines to league about NE mugging WRs and they change rules so the next year... -2004 despite the new rules he leads his hoh powered O to just 3 pts in 20-3 loss to Pats -2005 despite bing given mutliple chances he couldn't even get the game to OT. He had a clear INT that was overturned on replay somehow then after failing on downs deep in Indy territory he gets another gist when Jerome Bettis fumbles and Indy reutnrs it near midfield. On 2nd and 3rd and 1 he goes deep instead of trying to get his K closer. he settles for long FG and they lose on missed K. -2007 throws 2 critical RZ INTs in 4 pt loss to SD -2008 needs one first down to end game and not give SD a chance, loses yardage on drive and gives SD easy field to tie game to send to OT where SD wins -2010 needs one 1st down to ensure the Jets won't get another chance, he fails.
He won a SB in a postseason where he threw 3 TDs and 7 INTs, he had one great half all postseason. he lost to that crazy talented Saints team(which hasn't been close to a SB since) b/c he THREW AN INT FOR A TD TO END THE GAME. he lost to us last year b/c he couldn't get one more 1st down and ensure we would never touch the ball again.
The defense was big but even the best defenses need quality QB play and quality play from their offense. W/o Sanchez we don't win 4 playoff games. yes he stunk down the stretch(as did the D, STs and everyone else) but one bad stretch doesn't erase '09 & '10.
Forgive me for being a bit smarmy here but.... Maybe he should've said : "You reek of roses and chocolates", instead. :wink: But in all seriousness, you could just look at that as an example that some people here don't exactly think too highly of your, admittingly, long-winded posts where you state things in such a way that it takes an hour to get to your main point. Sometimes Less is better.
I'd put Matt Ryan over Eli because his first 4 seasons have been good to great. Eli was still making big mistakes and having terrible off games in his 4th season. You could argue that Matt Ryan has been Pro Bowl worthy in each of his first 4 seasons. Other than Aaron Rodgers Matt Ryan is the most likely QB to still be in the elite category in 5 seasons. He's also one of the top handful to take his team to 14-2 and a Super Bowl berth next season.
This post could be construed as stating that the moderator's participation in this discussion is useless. Not quite as direct a personal attack as the one you quoted, but personal all the same. Or maybe you should just stop whining like a child that just lost his Schotty-flavored binky.
