Just look at these man, just look at these, give the kid weapons and see what he can do. Obviously this season he had issues with that dumb number 10. I blame the coaches for this season. Losing confidence in Rex man management ability. [YOUTUBE]ETzZRlxS6wU[/YOUTUBE]
When the Phins sign Matt Flynn, the best QB's in the AFCE next year is as follows: 1) Brady 2) Flynn 3) Fitz 4) Sanchez
His receivers don't diss him in the huddle. Geez, even Trent Edwards didn't have WRs shouting at him in the huddle!
QFT. This is what so many fans really don't understand or just plain refuse to accept. They think that getting Peyton Manning will cure everything that's wrong with their team, and voila! Super Bowl here we come! If it worked that way, Indy ought to have about a dozen Lombardis in their trophy case from the Manning era, and they only have 1. In addition to having a good running game, teams that make/win the SB need to have a great D in the playoffs. Both the Pats and Giants' Ds were pretty poor, statistically, in the regular season, but both units stepped up in the playoffs. Niners/Giants and Ravens/Pats were both defensive slugfests decided by ST failures despite the eventual winners having elite QBs.
Its amazing what you can do when you have time to throw and a pocket to throw from. And a good thing we let that number 17 guy go. He sucked.
Great points. I think thats why if you look at one of the polls, most of this site agrees to keep Sanchez or that they don't want Manning. The best way for the Jets to be contenders in the playoffs again is to spread whatever cap room they to Braylon with an incentive laden contract, a RT, and a S or pass rusher. Then you retool other areas in the draft, specifically targeting what you couldn't get in FA without trading up. This team showed with a strong run game/defense that they can make noise in the playoffs. They were one half away. They need to realize you can't force Sanchez to become a great QB. You build around him and let him progress into whatever QB he can become. We already saw we can build a strong enough team without Sanchez having to throw 30+ times a game.
A great qb might not cure everything that is wrong with a team, but his play can mask a lot of deficiencies. Look at the Pats. It is hard to say that their receiving core is that talented, but they kill you because Brady gets them the ball where they need it, and allows them to get YAC. The Pats hb's are decent, but not elite. What does Brady's presence do - it allows the law firm and Woodhead to gain yards because no one will stack the box against the Pats and are scared to death of Brady throwing. The line has great players like Mankins, but again, its nowhere near the best in the NFL. But they know that Brady will pick up blitzes, make good decisions, and get the ball out quickly, so they worry about blocking one guy for a few seconds and dont have to over think. The defense is junk aside from Vilfork and Ninkovich (whatever the fuck his name is). However, they know that Brady can bail them out, so they can take chances, can play aggessively and know that even if they give up 20 against a team with a great defense, they can still win. So, if you dont think that makes a difference, I dont know what to say. Now, sure Brady only has 3 SB's, Rodgers has 1, Brees has 1, Rapist has 2, Eli has 1, and Manning has 1. But to me that just shows there are a ton of great qb's and it's fucking hard as hell to win SB's. And it also shows that it is very hard to march through the playoffs and win 3 or 4 games against great defenses. But if we are being honest, 10 of the last 12 SB's are going to teams with great qb's. So, that is what a great qb does. He might not cure all ills, but he sure as hell masks them. Now, lets look at what a shitty to mediocre qb does. With mediocre wr's, he struggles to get them the ball. The offense stalls, wr's never get in a rhythm, and the team finds it hard to score. The running game struggles because the other team knows the team has to run more, so they stack the box and prevent big runs. The line struggles because it is harder to open running lanes and block people on obvious passing downs. And the defense has to play better because they know the offense might not be able to win if they have to score more than 17-20 points. So, while a great qb does not cure all ills, he certainly masks a lot of deficiencies.
Good post. My apprehension about Manning remains, however, that getting him will require going with too many unfilled holes elsewhere on the team that his presence would not totally make up for. If one feels as you do that this can be accomplished, I can see how you pull that trigger. But I have my doubts...
It also helps that Brady has consistently had a great offensive line to work with, which also boasts incredible depth. I don't think you can say the same about the Jets line. We haven't had depth on the offensive line since Tanny has been GM. How many times have we seen the Pats just plug and play guys into that offensive line and they don't miss a beat. Yeah you can put it on Brady. But to say that line hasn't been consistently dominant is absurd.
If people would just take a step back from their unbridled lunacy... First 3 seasons John Elway- 53.4 Completion Percentage, 47 TD, 52 INT's, 6.6 YPA, 69 QB Rating Troy Aikman- 58.6 Completion Percentage, 31 TD, 46 INT, 6.7 YPA, 70.5 QB Rating Drew Brees- 59.4 Completion Percentage, 29 TD, 31 INT, 6.2 YPA, 73.7 QB Rating Eli Manning- 54.1 Completion Percentage, 54 TD, 44 INT, 6.3 YPA, 73.2 QB Rating Compare with... Mark Sanchez-55.3 Completion Percentage, 55 TD, 51 INT, 6.5 YPA, 73.2 QB Rating But yeah, the book is clearly written on Mark Sanchez. Terrible. Will never win a Super Bowl, etc. -X-
But ever since Brady started covering up deficiencies this bad he hasn't won a super bowl. In 07 with one of the greatest offenses ever, they lost. Brees didn't have a defense in SF and looked what happened. Brees didn't have a run game in Seattle, a L. Eli didn't hide any deficiencies in 07, I would say the defense and run game were both solid. He put up 17 points and his defense held one of the greatest offenses ever to 14. The defense was not masked by anyone. Peyton, the one time, he won the Super Bowl was because his defense stepped up in the playoffs and played above their regular season ranking. I think they also regained injured players that missed most of the regular season. Aaron Rodgers couldn't hide his defense this year or his wide receivers dropping everything. Last year, his defense played very well and the run game was much better. I think Ryan Grant had less than 5 rushing tds this year? Oh and Big Ben and his first Super Bowl was not him masking anything. I don't remember the second super bowl very well, but I do remember James Harrison causing a 14 point swing. That defense and run game has always been solid. They are the definition of a team. I agree all these QB's can mask deficiencies in the regular season, but when it comes playoff time you need an overall sound team or different areas to step up. These Qb's do this in the regular season and then make their road to the Super Bowl much easier by getting byes or home games. It would be wrong to think that they single handedly mask their team's weaknesses and win the Super Bowl. It takes a complete team effort to win in the playoffs and Super Bowl.
I think the problem with that system is that the Jets pass protection was wildly inconsistent, and it was particularly bad in games that carried more weight (AFC games against playoff teams). But yeah, consistency is key, and mediocre doesn't win championships. -X-
This is more on point than what was previously posted. A quarterback can mask deficiencies to a point. It all starts in the trenches. That is a fact that cannot be denied. The Big Pigs on the line make this game go.
I share your apprehension to an extent. But I also know that if Manning is here, Reggie Wayne is probably here as well. Tone and Plax are gone. Hunter is gone. Money will be saved elsewhere. In addition, the Jets will have all their picks, they will get a pick for Sanchez. So, it is not inconceivable that we can fill a lot of holes this year: 1. Manning 2. Wayne 3. RT (free agency and/or draft) 4. DE/OLB (free agency and/or draft) 5. Back-up TE (free agency and/or draft) 6. 2nd WR (free agency and/or draft) 7. Safety (2s) (free agency and/or draft) 8. Another OLB (draft) And lets not discount that if Manning is here, other players might follow. So, I dont think there will be these glaring holes if Manning is here. And if there are, I think he will mask a lot of them). I expect this team to look something like: QB: Manning, McElroy HB: Greene, McKnight, Powell FB: Connor WR: Wayne, draft pick, Kerley, free agent TE: Keller, draft pick LT: Brick, Turner LG: Slauson C: Mangold RG: Moore RT: FA or pick, Vlad Ends: Mo, DeVito, draft pick, Pitoutua (whatever his name is) NT: Pouha, Ellis, filler OLB: Pace or Thomas, 1st round pick, Maybin, Westerman MLB: Harris, Scott, Bellore, guy with ackward walk CB: Revis, Cro, Wilson Safety: Jimmy, free agent, 2nd round draft pick
I address the SB argument. He is not winning because other great QB's are. It's like in basketball - Lebron isnt winning because he is somehow not the best player in the NBA, its that other great players are getting their rings as well. And while I use the term masking deficiencies, lets remember that every NFL team has a shit load of talent. There are 53 professional football players on every roster. So, every team has talent. But the basic premise is that a great qb is absolutely vital to win it all. They elevate the play of everyone else and mask weaknesses.
Again, good points, and I would only add about the Pats not making it back to the SB since 07, while hardly enjoying defending them here, that in single elimination playoffs, one bad game can end your season, no matter how much talent was on display earlier. Two years ago the Ravens just went into Gillette and punched the Pats in the mouth, and the #6 seed knocked the AFC East champ out of the playoffs. That was that. Last year we all know how the Jets again as the #6 seed knocked hte Pats out. It was a great game, and it did leave the season series 2-1 in the Jets favor. But did it mean the Pats were not a talented team? Of course not. This is where your point about there being other great teams in the league comes in. No one team can dominate the league year after year. But it is also painfully true that Brady has been relatively quite successful in making up for limitations elsewhere on the Pats.
So as a fan of the Dolphins, your team making the playoffs would be meaningless? I guess that's good for you since they have only gone three times in the past 11 years, posting a 1-3 record. Look - there is no debate as to which franchise is more relevant OR successful these days. I know it must be hard to fathom, but it's true. In the last 11 years Miami has posted a losing records (92-100) while NY has a winning record (99-93). Miami has won 3 divisional titles in that span to the NY's 1, however, NY's playoff record is 6-6 while Miami's is 1-3. And let's face it - no one has mentioned Miami as a legit contender in ages. Any honest Miami fan will admit that their franchise has been one of the worst in recent memory. How far they have fallen from the glory days of Shula and Marino. And as far as success goes, you seem to flip flop depending what suits your argument. In one breath you say winning Super Bowls isn't the barometer, but then in another you say that playoff appearances and playoff wins are meaningless. I will conclude with this: My 16 year old son asked me why I root against Miami as much as I do. I told him all about the 80's and Dan Marino (I was at the fake spike game, as well as many other losses to Miami). He was pretty surprised that they were once considered a championship threat every year because for as long as he has been following football, Miami has been as relevant as the Cleveland Browns.
Who is not winning because other QB's are? I listed multiple QB's who had trouble winning without a team effort. I agree there is much talent and that is why having a QB is vital, but I think you are overplaying the importance especially come playoff time. 1st Super Bowl for Brady: defense holds the rams to 17 points and scored 7 and directly set up 3 by bring a turnover in to field goal range. In that whole playoff run Brady threw for an outstanding 1 touchdown and 1 pick. 1st Super Bowl for Ben: defense plays amazing, randle el throws a TD, mike vanderjagt misses field goals and defense holds manning in check, carson palmer injured and kitna plays rest of the game. Ben played average at best and won because of defense, run game, and interesting calls by the ref. 1st Super Bowl for Eli: defense, defense, defense. Holding an amazing offense to 14 points. Eli had one good drive late, something we have seen Sanchez do numerous times with much more sound football plays and throws. These are some examples of QB's that were clearly average to good and not elite or vital to their team winning. Qb's are vital in putting your team in a position to get home field and byes, but come playoff/super bowl time it is much more important to have a complete team. Look at Peyton. Many still argue he is the QB of the decade, yet that TEAM could only get one Super Bowl by the defense showing up. From my view, a QB can cover up things to an extent, but you need the team to win. I view more, you need a QB who you can trust to lead a late drive, and one who can minimize mistakes. You don't necessarily need an elite QB, and as my examples above, none of those QBs were ever considered elite when they won. All they did was minimize mistakes and converted a late drive. I just think saying oh looks only elite QB's won the past 10 years is misleading because many of those QB's were not playing at an elite level when they won their first Super Bowl. From my view, you are placing too much on the QB come playoff time. That is why Brady has had trouble in 07, 09, 10. That is why Peyton only has one Super Bowl and Brees has had trouble after 09. As said before, you need a QB who can lead a late second drive and minimize mistakes. On top of that, you need to trust the QB and well as seen this past weekend, you need a reliable kicker to make it all come together and make the QB look great. (doug brien :sad
