1. Winning is not really relative to the speaker's definition of success. Winning the Lombardi equates success, and nothing else. 2. Are we spoiled? If we EXPECT to get to the playoffs, and EXPECT to win the SB trophy every season, then we can be said to be spoiled, like the Patriots fans. How are we spoiled?
rex has been here 3 years, can we give him some time? 2 of those 3 were spent in the title game- no other AFC team has been to 2 title games in the last 3 years(including thise year as we will get 2 teams that haven't made it in at least 3 years). I want a SB more than anyone(or as much as anyone), this season was awful but again I'm not jumping ship and forgetting everything this team has done the last 2 years. I had so mcuh fun on those 2 runs and we'll have so much more when we do break through which could be next year- we don't know.
1. Well. We gave the abomination that is Schottenheimer what, good 6 years? Rex gets his 6 too, if not more. 2. Nobody is jumping the ship - but that doesn't make failure success.
You keep acting like I am jumping ship on Rex. Pull your head out, junc. You know why we are talking about this subject, because you know who this thread is about. An Offensive Coordinator who has worn out his welcome with both the fans and the players, and apparently, his own HC, too. A guy who has delivered us a top 10 offense zero times. You said yourself when Herm was on his way out that it was time for a change. Schotty as an OC has had a year longer than Herm did at HC. We have seen nothing from Brian Schottenheimer to suggest that we'll get anything more than inconsistent play from his offenses.
Though I responded to you I am not talking specifically about you, it's about the majority on here(or maybe just vocal minority?). Our OC hasn't wore out his welcome w/ me, I don't worry about what the majority thinks. Herm walked out on us so it was time, obviously we didn't get better w/ the next HC. I know we'll see the same whining about whoever the next OC will be. if I thought all of a sudden w/ the same talent we'll have a top 10 O I'd be all for a change but it's been about execution and it was about the OL this year. Fix the OL, upgrade the WR opposite Holmes and I think we could have a top 10 O next year w/ Schottenheimer.
At what point would you think the OC needs to go? Do you think we could overcome our usual problems? 2010 we should have had a great offense, but we had a lot of trouble starting games off strong. We rarely have a drive where we march down the field and start off strong. This year we actually did this against NE, BUF, WAS and we never ended up continuing this success after the first drive. Also, do you think we are using Sanchez and co. correctly under Schotty's system? It feels like our system hasn't changed much over the years, and we try to fit players into a system instead of a system to the players.
I'm not a typical fan that listens to everything espn tells them to do, I form my own opinions. The fans are using the OC as a scapegoat, no matter what he dos it is his fault. I see past that. Our 2010 O was good, slow starts happen. We overcame slow starts, it's better than starting off quicker like we did this year and losing games, right? I think this year our struggles had everything to do w/ the OL that got the QB killed and couldn't open holes for the run game half the year. No matter what plays you call they aren't going to work w/ a struggling OL and a QB that lost his confidence b/c of it. I know for sure that if the OC is gone that our fanbase will attack the next OC. he'll have a honeymoon period where everyone loves him b/c he isn't Brian but once we struggle it's all the OC's fault just like fans of every team say. The last 2+ years I heard from dolphin fans how it was all Dan Henning's fault, when they get a new OC they will take off. They got a new OC and went from 7-9 the last 2 years to 6-10 this year.
Well put. What about the situation where Alex Smith benefited greatly from Harbaugh going there and changing the whole offense for him? What about Eli getting a new OC and then winning the Super bowl that year? Do you think a new OC would be able to that with team? Or more so, is there an offensive mind out there where you think it would be worth it to let Schotty go? To the Dolphins point, that team lost their starting QB. We can argue how he isn't good and everything, but the team did drastically change besides just the OC. I wouldn't say we started off games quick this year though. We started them just as poorly. One of the few times we drove for a TD early on was the WAS game where we were down 7-0 already.
Alex Smith is likely to be one and done but credit Harbaugh for helping to turn around his career, he's still not as good as Sanchez has been. It sounds nice that the you say the Giants got a new OC then won the SB but kevin Gilbride was on the staff Eli's entire career and last I checked he was the OC a year ago when he threw 25 INTs and the last 3 years of zero playoff wins. Miami was winless w/ their starting QB. I haven'tlooked up the #s but I think we scored many more 1st qtr pts on offense this year than last year. I just looked it up: 2010: 29 pts 2011: 45 Not as big of a difference as I thought but still much better in 2011. I don't care when you score pts as long as we score them. We had problems on O, D and STs this year that held us back.
Do those points include TD's by the D and Special Teams? Matt Moore went 0-3 in his first 3 games too. How do we know Miami doesn't go on a run with Henne or even start 2-4 not 0-6? Can't say they didn't win a game with their starting QB and then not add they didn't win one with their backup in the same amount of games. Can you blame Eli for not making the playoffs last year though? He played really well against Philly and then the D and ST lost it. The D had a 3 TD lead I believe in the most important game of their season. Our O line was getting abused in games and yet we never tried to help them out. When we did it was with Mulligan... The couple games we brought Vlad as an extra TE worked out, but we stopped doing that. It is frustrating to watch the same problems occur over and over and not see the team adjust offensively. Defensively you could argue lack of talent, but offensively we had a solid unit. Dustin Keller is rarely split out wide. We start plays with Concrete out wide as teams won't know we aren't going to motion him into the backfield. We go into shotgun a lot on 3rd and short, and then sometimes split the only RB out wide. Why do we do this with Sanchez? Why not keep the threat of the run or PA(one of Sanchez's strengths). Our red zone offense went up which is great, but we weren't getting there enough for it to matter. We made the most of the little times we reached there. I understand there was team wide problems and those are glaring and need to be fixed. But why does it feel like Schotty's system isn't tailored to ground and pound? It feels like he thinks he has a different QB than the one he has. He is trying to fit Sanchez into a mold of QB he isn't.
I removed scores by the D/STs. It's hard to make the playoffs or even get into contention after starting 0-4. What? can we blame Eli? Nah, he only threw 25 INTs but he was great. The D blew the Philly game but how about leading your O to a 1st down or 2? that's pretty much all they needed- that was a team collapse- O, D and STs. not all 3rd and shorts are created equal, 3rd and more than a yd shotgun is ok- most teams do that but 3rd and less than a yd it's not. I don't recall going to a shotgun on 3rd and less than a yd. He's had a lot of success w/ Sanchez, I get the frustration but we need to realize this hasn't been the way every year. Our problems main cause was the OL, it's hard to have success as an O w/ an Ol playing as poorly as ours did and there is this misconception that it was just Hunter which isn't true- the only OL to play well most of the year was Mangold and he missed a bunch of games.
We were talking how Miami went 7-9 and dropped to 6-10. You can't rule out with Henne they go 8-8 or even 9-7. I agree they didn't move the ball well at the end, but that "great" defense should not have let that happen. Funny how there was no trash talking from the Giant defense then haha. I should have clarified, 3rd and short is 3rd and 3/4 and less in my eyes. I understand certain situation you go into it, but it seemed too frequent especially with an inconsistent and banged up/hurt QB. We have to trust his accuracy and quick reads since our O line was below average. Those 3rd and short plays seems to work better with more accurate QBs. I do think his accuracy can be fixed though. I know the whole O line played poorly overall. Mangold going down also showed our lack of planning since we knew Turner was hurt going into the season. Other teams were able to overcome poor line play, so again it is just frustrating. I don't see why letting Schotty go IF we have an immediate upgrade would be bad. I think Tanny said if Schotty stays he would still have the playcalling duties, but he never said OC position. I feel like for a Schotty who has an offense that has been inconsistent and limited for the past 6 years needs either to change philosophies or leave. He was very creative the year we had Pennington in 06, but since then I haven't seen anything to really give me any faith or hope. If he does change philosophies or is better at adapting in game, I think our offense greatly improves. I just feel like his playcalling and what Rex wants from our offense doesn't match.
I have a good memory, junc. You said it before Herm walked out on us. It was near the end of the season, I remember it vividly because it was also before Herm's "I'm the Jets' coach, period" speech. Though most of us were under the correct assumption that he was on his way out, especially after he was wined and dined by Carl Peterson after the Jets folded against Kansas City on opening day. And I agree about execution, but that has been a problem throughout the past 6 years, and also a reason provided for the weak production of his offenses. There comes a time when you have to wonder if it's the players or the coach. 6 years is time enough for me.
we also don't can't rule out them finishing worse than 6-10. was it lack of planning? we lost our best backup OL in preseason, we tried to get another player but he didn't work out. We were screwed when Mangold went down after Turner going down. '06 got Chad after 2 shoulder surgeries, we win division '07 Chad was hurt most of year and we had Clemens '08 got Favre in new system for 1st time in 16 years and got him less than a month before the season '09 raw rookie QB he helped lead an offense w/ a 1st and 2nd yr QB to back to back title games, this year we had many things go wrong including the OL, 3 new WRs, poor run game half the year, etc... he deserves another year and if we have a year like this(regardless of the circumstances) then we move on.
You could argue his play calling and player subs at 1st and goal cost us a shot at Super Bowl last year but thats for a different day. We can agree to disagree. Altohugh, where do you think Schotty needs to improve? (if you think he does) I think the most frustrating part is that Sanchez looks best when we tell him to just go out there and throw it like in the 2 minute drill or late in games. People argue it is because of prevent defense, but then wouldn't there be more than one defender reading his eyes and ready to jump his passes since everyone contests he only makes one read? That's what causes frustration for me. In Denver on 4th and 20 plus Sanchez throws a pefect pass on a rope to Turner in between 3 defenders. Against Miami, he just picks his way down the field with down the field throws.
