DeAngelo Hall: "Sanchez Middle Pack QB"

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Burnz, Dec 1, 2011.

  1. nyjrkm06

    nyjrkm06 Active Member

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    I agree with Hall. Sanchez does not look good out there.
     
  2. NDmick

    NDmick Revis Christ

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    Because he's a fucking vertical QB.

    I've been saying that since he got here.
     
  3. Mr. Green Pants

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    Yeah, but he's still a bust. Don't you recall Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, Brian Griese, Joey Harrington, David Carr, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, and Matt Leinart doing similar things? It means nothing.

    :)
     
  4. PJ4Ever

    PJ4Ever Well-Known Member

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    Mark Sanchez played one of the best first halves of his career. He usually gets off to slow starts, but not today. Alas, today, his struggles came in the 3rd quarter, when he was terribly inaccurate, but he played amazing in the first half. Defense let them down, and so they only had 3 possessions.

    And again, in the 4th, he ratcheted it up again and played brilliantly. What game are you Sanchez naysayers watching? He played very well today.
     
  5. ScotsJet

    ScotsJet Active Member

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    Additionally, at least one overthrow came on a failed protection with a defender six inches from his face and no way to step into the throw.

    He did fine.
     
  6. KWJetsFan

    KWJetsFan Well-Known Member

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    Again, I think Mark is a big game player, as well as big 4th quarter QB, but did you really think he played "very well" today?

    He was 19/32 for 165 yards, 1TD and 0 INT with a 83.5 rating. How is that anything more than average?

    Just throwing numbers out, but if he was 26/40, 325, 3 TD's 0 INT's, that's a "very" good game. Peoples' expectations for Sanchez are so low now.
     
  7. PJ4Ever

    PJ4Ever Well-Known Member

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    I don't go by numbers, I go by what I see. I thought, overall, he played much better today than last game, and yet, by the numbers, he was better last game. I thought in the first half, he was extremely accurate and did what he was asked. He struggled in the 3rd, but made lots of clutch throws in the 4th, most obviously the TD to Santonio. He also did a nice job of keeping some plays alive in the pocket.
     
  8. Trifco

    Trifco New Member

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    It's not the "expectations" like in "This is the way I want him to play every single game for the next 10 years".

    It's just that instead of comparing him against a fully developed top QB, we're comparing him against Mark Sanchez... and he got the job done (again), he's improving, he confirms that his strengths -like being clutch- are there, he's still just in the initial part of his career... and it's worth saying it twice, he got the job done; with all that -"among other things"- he had a very good game, because the way he performed hints that eventually he'd be playing according to everybody's "expectations".
     
  9. nyjetsrule

    nyjetsrule Active Member

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    Sanchez find ways to win games, thats all we can ask of him right now. If he can win 4 more this year, we are in the postseason and will be walking in hot, likely to play the AFCW winner or the Texans without a QB. Can't ask for more than that.

    side note: Cimini (yes i know) said this was Mark's 10th 4Q comeback counting the postseason. Gotta love it.

    Also to mention Bradway's 'clutchness' post, he is right to an extent. Those are two possibilities for late game success. The third is that the guy simply steps up and gets it done when his back is against the wall. It's happend to much, and far to often for (me anyways) to believe its either luck, or coincidence. I believe its something else at work, and Mark is stepping up (along with the rest of the offense) when they have to, and they find a way to get the job done.
     
    #149 nyjetsrule, Dec 5, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011
  10. ugggghhh

    ugggghhh New Member

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    I think the best thing you can say about how Sanchez played today is that he managed the game well. I know its somewhat of an insult in and of itself but thats basically how I see it. Now granted, I didn't watch the whole game so I'm baseing alot of that off of his stats which I know can be misleading sometimes. He didn't make any mistakes and he did what he had to do to keep drives alive and win the game.

    The only problem they have is that it seems like they are trying to handcuff him back there and limit his mistakes by calling easy reads and quick passes, which a lot of times really hurts a players development. But whenever they let him throw it around he makes alot of mistakes so its hard to really tell what they should or shouldn't do with him.
     
  11. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    They drafted him to run Schotty's system which is heavily based on the WCO, even though it is not a prototypical WCO. It still uses slants, screens and quickouts a lot to exploit the 7 yards from the line of scrimmage and sideline to sideline.

    Rex wants to run a much more conservative offense than that even, with between the tackles play drawing 8 men into the box and then taking shots down the field from there, but only on passing and neutral downs.

    As you point out, what Sanchez seems best in is play action off of a balanced attack with most of the passes inside the numbers with throws also to receivers in single coverage on the sidelines.

    I don't think the Jets have the personnel or the coaching desire to run that kind of system. I think the OC is mediocre at best and the head coach has no feel at all for the offensive side of the ball.

    I think the Jets drafted a young QB with 1 year of starting experience at the NCAA level and they threw him to the wolves. I think at some point Sanchez is going to turn into a very good championship caliber QB. I'm just starting to think it won't be with the Jets. Nothing is stacked right for him here, a fact that was covered up in 2009 and 2010 by a great and then good offensive line.
     
  12. Trifco

    Trifco New Member

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    On the other hand, I also think that the Jets need a QB that agrees to play a not-so-important role in a pretty conservative offense (with ground and pound at least as a background noise), that can go for those deep passes every once in a while and that performs great at the end of games which usually are close thanks to an ideally strong defense and a conservative offense.

    He's find success doing that (and no, it's not as easy as some may think, specially the part when you need him to step up at the right time).

    The problem came when the offense has tried to play like a WCO which coincidentally happened when half the OL got injured in a season with almost no preseason, so we can't even say for sure that our 3 year QB wouldn't be able to perform in a different -more important- role, given better conditions.
     
    #152 Trifco, Dec 5, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011
  13. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    I think Sanchez is good in a conservative Ground and Pound when the offensive line and backs support that scheme. This year they don't unfortunately.

    I think he's good in a fairly freewheeling offense that features a lot of between the tackles runs and shots taken up the field. That would be the Sid Gillman option with a heavier emphasis on the run. I think he blows chunks in the WCO, which requires better accuracy than he is capable of at this point in his career.

    I think the reason the Jets traded up for him is that Schotty saw a fit for the modified Sid Gillman scheme that he prefers. The problem is that he prefers to hybridize the Sid Gillman and the WCO whereas Sanchez is much more suited for a hybrid of the Sid Gillman and the Ground and Pound.

    It's no accident that Sanchez settled right down each season when the Ground and Pound was brought in, until 2011 when the personnel no longer allows for an effective Ground and Pound. It's also no accident that he does just fine throwing straight up the field at the end when he has too.

    Schotty occasionally gives him upfield throws at other points in the game, but those are the typical motion plays that take forever to get snapped and usually have just one option deep. The plays Sanchez seems to thrive in are the timing patterns deep where he's just counting in his head and making the throw. Those are things of beauty to watch. His propensity to throw high doesn't matter as much on those throws because the receiver has longer to adjust to the throw and the defensive back doesn't have a prayer of getting to it instead.
     
  14. Prince of Thieves

    Prince of Thieves New Member

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    Schotty seems to be adjusting his playcalling to Sanchez's strengths, though. He emphasized the bootleg a little more against the Skins.
     
  15. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    He will never adjust enough on his own. He wants to run his own system. That's understandable. Like many people however his system isn't good enough to win in the NFL and the only people who can tell him that are the Jet's management staff, when they fire him.

    That they haven't done so yet is amazing. People are calling for the head of the young franchise QB who is only in his third season and has QB'd in two successful playoff runs and yet people are suggesting he be replaced.

    How you get to that situation without first having replaced the offensive coordinator is just unbelievable at this point. It's managerial incompetence.
     
    #155 Br4d, Dec 5, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011
  16. #28Martin

    #28Martin Well-Known Member

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    Hall said nothing wrong. And if you heard is interview, it wasn't meant to sound like a put down. He was complimentary a large part of it.
     
  17. zace

    zace Well-Known Member

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    A west coast offense is a down the field attack. Ie philadelphia, not just pass heavy. Which if we played a true west coast, I think sanchez would flourish. He showed last season that he's a very good downfield thrower. We need to get back to more of that

    Sent from my SGH-T589 using Tapatalk
     
  18. Prince of Thieves

    Prince of Thieves New Member

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    To my understanding, that depends on which version you're talking about.
     
  19. Lon Chaney

    Lon Chaney Well-Known Member

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    What we need to remember is that this guy was thrown to wolves after 16 collegiate starts. What I like about Sanchez has been progressing every year in every major category.

    Completion % 53.8, 54.8, 56.5

    Yards per Game -- 163, 206, 223

    Touchdowns -- 12, 17, 24 (projected)

    Interceptions -- 20, 13, 14 (projected)

    QB Rating -- 63, 75.3, 81.1

    The guy just turned 25 last month. Remember Eli in his 3rd season? He was basically getting run out of town.
     
  20. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    Bill Walsh's WCO, which basically is what most others are patterned after, was a short horizontal passing attack designed to spread out the defense and allow for effective running plays as a counterpoint to all the relatively short passing. It also had some downfield strike capabilities, but it was designed to spread out the 3-4, which had become very strong against the run at that point.

    The Air Coryell variant featured more downfield passing, also to setup the run eventually but with less emphasis on the ball control aspects of the WCO. This is the variant that the Green Bay Packers ran under Brett Favre and still to some extent under Aaron Rodgers.

    Schotty's variant just doesn't seem to work well so we have no idea what it's ultimate purpose is. Brett Favre basically ran Green Bay's WCO in the 10 games he was healthy and the Jets did pretty well in those 10 games. He only had a month to practice though since the trade that brought him to the Jets happened after camp had already opened in 2008. The decision to modify the offense for the QB was a pretty simple one and the Jets simplified the playbook dramatically early in the season, leading to some near-record results for Favre and the offense.
     

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