Quite Frankly, I don't give a shit how Freeman, or Ryan are. If they were Jets, I would. As far as Sanchez, I don't think he is a Franchise QB. I believe he benefits from the rest of the team. Sanchez is a fighter, and plays like a fighter. I will give him that. He still has tunnel vision, and his footwork has regressed when his first look is covered. He is great when he can stick his foot, and throw it.
I think by years end Sanchez will prove all the non believers he is OUR QB. He's done more with less... No run game... Getting killed on passing plays... Couldn't sustain drives....always chasing a lead.... I think he's done just fine
I hope your right, and will eat my hat if he is. I just don't see it, until I see him improve in the crucial aspects. Moving the safeties with his eyes, and ability to get off his primary read. I also think he is above average on scrambling. Of course, when he scrambles he gets off his primary receiver.
I am clearly not Sanchez's biggest fan, and I get on him in gameday threads when he makes bad decisions. With that said, I am not one to measure how good he is on a week-to-week basis. I have never done that, nor will I ever do that. One good game does not make him a franchise qb when he has lost games through his turnovers, and still has a completion rate of 55% (and not as many drops as some other qb's have). However, those bad games dont mean that he is not this team's qb either. It is what it is. He is the qb, and this team will rise or fail based on how he plays. He will have more good days this year, and will probably have bad days. But, to try to say this is who he is after one good game, which literally came a month after he scored 18 points for the Ravens is a bit much.
Aren't we like number 5 in dropped passes or something like that. With teams like Dolphins Browns and Falcons ahead of us.
Offensive unit is doing Sanchez any justice to help him. I'm not saying I full faith in the kid and STILL pull my hair out 4 times a game because of him( Moving Safeties, Pointing at target, not progressing reads ) I totally understand but he needs help as well
Do you think a progressing QB in his third year should be doing the things you stated? A QB with 6 Playoff games under his belt?
Third year QB's are notoriously unstable in the first half of the season. That's because of the combination of more freedom and the false confidence that goes with that. Then things get scaled back a little as the team realizes it doesn't have Peyton Manning Take Two at QB (and even Manning threw 9 of his 15 Int's in 2000 in the first 8 games) and the player realizes he isn't the answer the world awaited and the performance becomes much better. Look at Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Flacco, Drew Brees, Troy Aikman, John Elway, etc. The start of the third season was a pitfall for all of them that got better to some degree when they realized they weren't already a great QB able to do whatever they wanted with the ball and more importantly when their teams figured this out also. The Jets made a classic error when they decided to let the offensive line sort itself out internally, without much of an offseason process in place, and open things up wide in the air despite replacing 2 of the 3 main receivers. That Sanchez has emerged as well as he has suggests that he's actually an excellent QB at this point in his career and likely to make further strides moving forward. That the Jets chose to make all of those sequential errors is less important than the fact that Mark Sanchez and the team survived them without major damage. The Steelers made the same errors with Ben Roethlisberger and promptly collapsed and they should have known better.
So what is Sanchez doing in addition to his responsibilities of the past 2 years? Is he calling his own plays? Is he making audibles? Is he throwing down the field more? So as I agree with your point, it is a mute point with Sanchez. IMO
What Sanchez is doing in addition to his responsibilities in the past 2 years is staying upright behind worse pass protection with less help from the running game and with receivers that he not only is trying to adjust too but who in at least one case are trying to adjust to 2 years out of the game. We could get into what happens when you face the Baltimore Ravens defense with a rookie UDFA center who cannot make the blitz calls on the line and apparently nobody else could either but that's so obvious that I'm sure you don't need me to explain it further at this point. Edit: And of course, like so many teams before them the Jets chose to throw the ball 112 times with 73 rushing attempts in their first 3 games. So they were actually asking Sanchez to do a lot more than they had asked him to do the two previous years. I know this is going to sound ridiculous when we look back on it in a few seasons but they also chose to throw the ball 35 times against the Ravens with Colin Baxter trying to sort out where the hell Haloti Ngata and Terrell Suggs were from down to down.
INTERCEPTIONS are MUCH WORSE THAN A DROPPED PASS, let that sink in until you understand how counting one & discounting the other is definitely trying to have it both ways.
YES THEY are!!!!!!11!!!! YOU KNOW WHAT'S EVEN WORSE?!?!!?!?!?!!? DROPPED PASSES THAT LEAD TO INTERCEPTIONS!!
Can we stop with the consistency issues.Really. Being asked to throw down the field and outside the numbers has 2 effects. It lowers the comp.% and does not allow enough practice on the high % routes. (I cant say this enough..Was Vinny T a bad QB, or did he play in bad systems?, Parcells simple point in bringing him here, should now be coaching 101, considering the continual evolution of the rules to favor passing connectivity) And I think, that may be the issue, with BS. You get a green kid, you start with the easy inside stuff, create mismatches on slants (not 4 yard slants on 3rd and 7, on 1st and 10) etc. Schotty has never taken that attitude, not to start Marks career, not to start a season, or even a game. Tomorrow, BB, make an effort to watch the Pats/PittDouchebags game. My guess is, Brady will play early the way Schotty should have played to beat Baltimore. we'll see.
You said that 3 year QB's have more freedom. I am simply saying that Sanchez is not doing anything different from the first 2 years. Is the running game as good? Nope Is the Line playing as good? Nope Is Sanchez playing as good? Nope QB is the most important position on the offensive side of the ball, and I for 1 expect more from our 3rd Year, top five draft pick, 6 game playoff game QB. Good QB's adapt to their situation, and Sanchez has compounded the problems. I am so tired of the excuses for this kid. I do hope that a few seasons we do look back at this and laugh, but it is going to be a long few seasons if he doesn't improve on high school basics.
I can't do more than give you the facts. My position basically comes down to the fact that there are very few quarterbacks in NFL history who started season one and were great season three. You're talking Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, Matt Ryan (arguably) and a small handful of other guys who were capable of producing well at that age. There are a bunch of other guys who started season one and were decent to good season three and helped their team to the playoffs that year. We're talking Troy Aikman, Terry Bradshaw, John Elway, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, and a few other guys in that category also. Then there were the guys who were good QB's but got turned loose in season three and everything went to hell in a hand basket. That would be Ben Roethlisberger, Drew Brees, Jake Plummer and a bunch of other guys who just fell off a cliff for a season at that point. I don't think Sanchez is in the Peyton Manning, Dan Marino category at all. That's not my argument. I don't think those guys come along very often and to be honest with you I think their contributions to winning it all are vastly over-rated. They're kind of like comets blazing overhead. Great to watch but trying to catch a ride on one isn't so easy. I think he's in the next category down. The young guys who got a shot on a team with some talent and then went as far as the team was capable of going. Nobody thinks Troy Aikman was responsible for the Dallas dynasty. he was just a strong contributing part. Their hall of fame WR and RB were huge contributors also and the trenches were about as strong as you get on those teams. John Elway didn't win a trophy until he had a great back behind him and several strong receivers to throw too. It took more than a decade for that to come together. Eli Manning has a ring right now because he played on a team with one of the most successfully aggressive defenses in NFL history. Flacco, Sanchez, Stafford, Freeman, Bradford, all those guys are going to win rings based on whether the rest of the team's contributions make their contributions significant or not. Just like Aikman, Elway, Eli, etc. Right now what Sanchez is showing me suggests that he can hold up his end of the bargain when clutch time happens, this assuming that the Jets are a Super Bowl caliber team which we won't know for months, or even seasons to come. Anybody who is judging him because he's not Tom Brady or Peyton Manning is just playing a fool's game at this point. We're never going to have Tom Brady or Peyton Manning on this team. They don't come along very often and they require either a #1 overall pick or a lot better offensive coaching than we currently have to get.
I am so tired of the way you use Elway as a comparitor to Sanchez, and also for your implication that he was clearly a less talented Qb, categorically so, than Manning or Brady. Your reference to Elway not getting a trophy implicitly minimizes his accomplishments before then. I know we all think, especially now with Ryan explicitly raising the Jets' SB prospects, of the SB as the ultimate goal. But its a team achievement in a team sport, and there are certainly great players who have never won one, like Dan Marino. Before winning his first, and then second, SB's, Elway's team won three AFC Champ games. In sixteen seasons his team won 148 games, which I believe is a record. He also is recorded as having Qb'd 47 game winning or tying drives in the fourth quarter, also a league record. But let's focus on his early career, since you are saying there are similarities to Sanchez. I think they do not hold up. His first year was not comparable because unlike the Jets, who had no one to challenge Sanchez as an alternative starter, the Broncos had Steve DeBerg, who was an above average Qb at about the mid-career mark. When DeBerg got injured, Elway started ten games and ended the season ranked 17th for Qb's. In his second season, his first as the starter for the whole season, the Broncos went 12-2, and Elway had 18 TD's. In his third season Elway's team led the league in total offense. Stat comparisons are problematic given the differences in that era, but as compared to the rest of the league Elway was already one of the league's best Qb's in his third season. His subsequent disappointments in winning three Champ games but losing the Super Bowl were due to a lack of overall team talent. Elway essentially carried his team as far as they went, and three Champ game victories is no shabby performance. In short even by his third year in comparison to Sanchez Elway was a far better Qb.
In John Elway's third season the Broncos were 8th in points and 10th in yards. Elway completed 54% of his passes and had a 70.2 passer rating. He threw 23 interceptions for a 3.6% rate. Elway finished 7th in the NFL in TD passes despite throwing 605 passes on the season. Using Pro Football Reference's similarity system, which is an offshoot of the Bill James similarity system these are the Quarterbacks whose career was the same shape as Elway as of the end of 1985: Terry Bradshaw Joe Ferguson Ken Anderson Norm Snead Bob Griese Jim Plunkett David Carr Marc Bulger Joe Kapp Jim Everett You may want to see him as a bonafide superstar as of the end of his third season, however neither his results nor the people he most compared to at that point agree with your analysis on this issue. At the end of his third season the Elway hype was still much larger than the Elway results. Edit: And Elway was clearly less talented than Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. The Broncos, BTW, concurred with this notion when they dramatically scaled back his throws after 1983. Elway didn't come within 100 throws of his 605 again until 1993. He wasn't all that effective throwing the ball that much and the Broncos scaled him back to about 500 throws a season for the next 5 seasons. For comparison's sake here are Peyton Mannings similars as of the end of his third season: Johnny Unitas Jeff Garcia Dan Marino Carson Palmer Aaron Brooks Steven Grogan Jim Zorn Jim Kelly Ben Roethlisberger
Your reference to qb's you say were similar to Elway's in 1985 is a list of Qb's all with more experience than Elway's. I know the point is regarding my statement that he was already one of the better Qb's in the league, but ftr it has nothing to do with how Elway compares with Sanchez in their respective third years. I also stand by my take on Elway's accomplishments that year - a third year player who is second in the league in passing yardage (behind only Dan Marino and his more talented group of receivers) has achieved a level of performance far above what Sanchez has done. Leading his team to 8th in total points in the league without any real running game (Denver's rushing attack ranked 16th that year) is also an accomplishment that not only places him in the higher ranks of NFL Qb's that year. It is an accomplishment that at least so far this year Sanchez's chances of coming close to are between slim and none. You know very well that the stats you cited in your first paragraph provide a misleading comparison to today's league. The rules were different, offensive schemes and approaches were different, as any Jet fan can remember how Ken O'Brien played in that era compared to someone like Chad Pennington. I have great respect for both Brady and P Manning. But both played on teams that were better balanced than the Broncos were until at least the last two years of Elway's career. I have no doubt that by any fair measure or means of comparison that Elway is in the same league as them.
As a general rule you don't judge quarterbacks before 25. I think that specifically applies to Sanchez, because I think the Jets have done a poor job of providing him with positional continuity. In any event, I think I'm encouraged by his steady improvement. A lot of his poor play early in the season stems from his inability to get comfortable in the pocket with Mangold out. I think it took another week for him to realize he was safe again. I like his pocket awareness. I think the Jets should take more advantage of his arm, and I think the system isn't tailored to him at all. My criticism of him? His accuracy, which is improving, and his ability to make reads. He seems to have tunnel vision and unless the protection breaks down, he's not looking at the whole field. Still, it's important to bear in mind that he's improved steadily, and that he's still very young. -X-
