We all are harping about the OL not creating holes and whatnot, but I think I see some more glaring and debilitating trend from the OL play. That is, this OL is not really generating any sort of push at the point of attack. Or am I seeing an illusion? The stat line seems to say what I am seeing is not an illusion, but then I wouldn't know for sure. Case in point - during Tomlinson's heyday back at SD, the line would generate monstrous pushes at the point of attack, at times 2 yards deep past the LoS. Of course you can consider that an outlying performance, but any competent OL should generate at least 1 yard push at the line -then the RB will have more room to operate from. When I look at Jets run game in general, I do not see that kind of push at the point of attack this season. Yeah, I saw Mangold leading deep past the LoS a few times, but that's Mangold doing his thing right, and the OL in general has been sub-par in terms of pushing the DL off and generating the push at the line. I have to question why Jets OL are not generating much of a push. Is it the play selection issue? Or play design? Or (the dreaded) execution? What are your thoughts on this?
It's hard to say. they've done much better in the past couple of weeks in pass protection, and they actually did get a decent push against a pretty decent front 4 (especially with haynesworth and wilfork both playing) in the pats game. in terms of the run blocking, they didn't create any holes against the dolphins. one of the problems, IMHO...is trying to run greene to the outside. it's stupid and it's not his style of running. he's a downhill runner. those plays haven't worked all season yet schotty continues to call them quite a bit. that's partly an indictment on greene but at the same time schotty needs to know his personnel
I think it has to do with execution, to be honest. The rules about padded practices hurt the Jets because they can't practice being physical, which shows on game day.
Agreed, using Greene as an outside slasher type back isn't going to work. He's a bruiser, which is why I think he's been so effective in years past. Think about when he's really come on and had a big game. Late in the year and in the playoffs. By then D lines are banged up, much easier to run within the tackles of a good O line. I can see him having a much better second half for that reason and being that the O line continues improving
While overall the OL looked better, Hunter in particular, and Sanchez was only rushed four times all game, there are still deficiencies in the running game. Hunter's improvement is promising, and Mangold is still getting over that injury, while several times pushing his man well off the play. Imo that clearly means we want to look, at least this week, at the other three. Slauson just is not playing significantly better than last year. And he wasn't much of a contributor last year. Moore is definitely not playing as well as he has in the last few years. He didn't make any obvious mistakes against Miami, but didn't do much particularly in the running game. Ferguson. It's tempting to just assume when you talk about him "consistent Pro Bowl level LT", but the fact is he's made a number of mistakes this year. It seems to me he's having a bit of an off year for him.
You think he still hasn't fully recovered from his hip surgery this summer? Could be a reason Moore has been sub-par so far. Slauson on the other hand is looking like a great backup, but not someone to be relied on as a starting LG...
Anyone else notice that he had the FB lead-blocking for him on this play? I started a thread about this the other day but it didn't generate much interest. I just think it's glaringly obvious that he has so much more success with the FB lead-blocking for him than when he's in the backfield alone. I don't understand why they don't do this all the time. When Conner is there to either pick up the blitz (as in this case) or seal the edge (as he did on a big play last week) Greene has success running outside. When he's not we often see those maddening plays where Greene gets hit in the backfield and has nowhere to go.
Ferguson. like any LT, depends on the guy next to him to be stable and productive. The LT has responsibility for the edge on the blindside and when the LG is shaky that makes the LT's job really hard to do. We've already seen Sanchez get blown up once this year, against Baltimore, when Ferguson cheated inside because he didn't think Slauson and Baxter could handle the gap overload the Ravens were presenting on that side.
I don't want to nitpick but that video isn't the greatest example as it's against the pats goal line defense.Greene won't be facing many 8-3 formations this season. I agree with the opening poster in that they aren't getting that big push that you'd expect from an elite line.It's not as if they are getting no push but it's just not as good as it use to be.Lots of reasons for this,all in my opinion of course and not in any order: 1)Ferguson and Hunter aren't maulers.There will be moments when their technique will get them the leverage needed to drive block but for the most part they are zone blockers,attack the play side shoulder of the defender and let the running back find the hole.This isn't exactly a problem as the push tends to come from the interior line where you are more likely to have double teams. 2)I think Moore was a bit sluggish coming off his injury.He's had a few bad games.We all saw Hunter's struggles in the first few games so the right hand side hasn't been the dominating wall that is was with a healthy Moore and Woody. 3)Baxter,can't blame the guy but he was horrible.He got pushed back more often than he got a good block. 4)Greene could probably do a better job,there have been a few times where the line gets a good push but Greene can only turn those into a 4 yard gain.I don't know if it's a lack of vision or a lack of patience but when the line gives you some space you need to be picking up over 5 yards. 5)Holmes is a pretty poor blocker.Plax is good but I think the reason Patrick Turner is seeing so many snaps is because Holmes is a liability in run blocking. It's all made worse by the lack of padded practices.I'm hoping it gets better as the season goes on.
I don't see how the line getting no push is anything besides a technique/execution thing. You get more leverage than the guy you are trying to block and you get a push. Doesn't really matter what the play is. The line was way better at that the last two years when the run calls we're even more predictable with the ground and pound/protect Sanchez philosophy.
Brandon Moore is declining and Wayne Hunter has been inconsistent. We need to start rebuilding the right side of our offensive line.
1. On Ferguson: His job description first and foremost is to be the pass blocker that shields the blind side of the QB. That alone is a tall order by itself, so I don't want to blame him for the lack of production on the left side. Frankly, unless you are sticking a blocking TE to the left side, you shouldn't be calling off-tackle to the left anyway. (And Schottenheimer does exactly this, leaving Greene high and dry. Boy, don't I love my OC?) That said, I would say he was more than adequate in run blocking so far. 2. Moore: his play has regressed big time in my eyes. To me, good blocking LG is more useful by pulling than by blocking straight up for belly run. That run-straight-up type of blocking belongs to the C and RG/RT in my book. That Jets had to resort to the B gap runs on the left side for short yardage situations this season is a very good indicator of how much Moore has regressed in run blocking. A RG that can't run block is nearly useless. 3. That short runs were directed to LG side does not necessarily mean Slauson has been stellar; In fact, such statement couldn't be further from the truth. I don't know what the coaching staff sees in this kid, but he just does NOT generate any push whatsoever. Case in point? Watch the QB draw by Sanchez last week. At least Moore sealed off his DL to the right all right. It took herculean effort from Mangold to seal off the left side, since Slauson wasn't pushing his defender at all. This guy is a very good backup material, nothing more. 4. Hunter: I do not necessarily think he is doing any better than any of the two aforementioned OLs. I would think his slightly below average run blocking is not really visible as of now since Moore is doing so poorly, but if he was any good, that should be visible, especially if Keller (or Mulligan for that matter) is lined up next to him. We don't see much of effective right-side run either, so that is a telling sign that Hunter isn't that good either. If you ask me, I'd say Jets OL this season has two very good linemen (Ferguson/Mangold), two backup materials (Slauson/Hunter) and one old OL in need of immediate replacement (Moore). This Vlad kid had better be real good, or Jets will be spending a lot of high draft picks on OLs yet again next year.
Mangold is injured, we have a new right tackle, Slauson is still only in his second year, and Moore is coming back from offseason surgery. I think the unit will continue to improve as the season goes on.
I would say I agree to this sentiment. Callahan wasn't exactly stellar with OL coaching this season to say the very least.
Marcus McNeil of Chargers, in his rookie year, as a LT nonetheless, generated far more push than that backup material disguising a starter. 2nd year thing is but an utter bullshit, if you can be that generous.
Pat's goal line defense at the 16 yard line? They were stacked for a run play. I have re watched all of the Jets games this year and last, and nearly all of Greene's longest runs have been to the outside. Greene can get to the corner fast and when he can turn it he has the steam to make yards and break tackles. He can also pound up the middle well with good blocking. Saying Greene is not a good outside runner is just plain not true. And nobody runs (or passes) well without good blocking, that's obvious enough.
this. i don't have stats handy but i'm sure there's an obvious drop off when we run right vs. left. past two years running right was our strength, its now our weakest side to run on.
