He is a 3rd rounder. This is no where near the DRob fiasco. Ducasse was a major fuck up in terms of giving him a 1st round grade. Clearly they missed the football IQ issue he had. The good news, is that they have gone with the technical football player more than they haven't.
The Pouha pick was a disaster. Just like the Bryan Thomas pick was a disaster. Just like the D-Rob trade up was a disaster. That Pouha, Thomas and D-Rob all had some value in their careers eventually does not change the fact that the Jets waited years for Thomas and Pouha to pay off and had poor seasons on that side of the ball in the process. It doesn't change the fact that aside from one good year D-Rob was about as bad value as you can get for two first round picks and a fourth. The point is that this idea that you can make good value picks early in the draft by trading up and by taking little known players from less competitive environments is a staple for the Jets and has been since 2001. It's a strategy grounded primarily in cannibalizing the future to promote better results today. The problem is the results today are never really compelling enough to make up for the losses tomorrow. The only other team in the NFL that cannibalizes itself as much as the Jets do on a year over year basis is the Redskins, and we know how that has turned out.
How do you figure we "waited so long" for a 3rd round pick to develop? He was on IR in his second year (which has nothing to do with his talent) and by his third year he started to have very good value for this team. so, uhh, wtf?
How was Pouha a disaster pick? He never got a chance with Herm and with Mangini and got played sparingly starting in 2007. It took a guy who knew what he was doing with a defense in Rex Ryan to magically turn Pouha into a formidable starter. Rex Ryan is pretty good when it comes to evaluating D-Linemen, being a great D-Line coach during those elite Raven defense days. He got the most out of guys like Kelly Gregg in Baltimore and they established a formidable group. Rex Ryan was a large part in the draft of Haloti Ngata, who is one of THE best players in the NFL in a steal with the 12th overall pick. I trust Rex when it comes to picking out D-Lineman, so should many other Jet fans. Anthony Schelgel is a disaster pick. Vernon Gholston is a disaster pick. Sione Pouha is not.
I really disagree. A disaster is Gholston. Thomas and Pouha are solid picks. To lump a 3rd rounder in with 1st rounders makes no sense and is unfair to those players. Also, notice how scheme dictated who did well and who didn't. Manigini never used Pouha well, but Rex has made him a very good run stopping NT. That can't be denied. Thomas has had a 10 year career, and never truly sucked, but was never an impact player. You're assessment is off. They waited years because the coaching was bad. DRob is the exception. And god forbid Pouha took 3 years to come into his own. The context in which you are putting them is too extreme. The Redskins have had better success than the Jets since 2001?
You're misremembering big time here. Pouha was drafted in 2005 and the first year he had any real value was in 2009 when Ryan brought his system in. The first year that Pouha got many plays was indeed 2007 but he was part of the 29th ranked run defense in the NFL that year. The Jets couldn't stop the run for their life that year and gave up more than 2,000 yards rushing. In 2008 Pouha's role was reduced again when the Jets brought in Kris Jenkins because they were dissatisfied with the play of their NT's in Mangini's system. The first game of 2009 was the second start of Pouha's career and it's when he really began to have value for the Jets. Before that he was just another guy on the line and not a particularly good one either.
Meh, I guess you're right, but as others above have pointed out, he was also badly coached and apparently playing in the wrong system. That said, I'm not as big on Pouha as some here, but he does one hell of a job. I still think it's way too early to speculate why Ellis isn't playing. But I guess, as with all things, time will tell.
Bryan Thomas's greatest weakness was that he took 4+ years to become anything of value, only beginning to be a plus player after Mangini moved the Jets from a 4-3 to a 3-4. Getting value out of a pick is important but if you have to wait for years for that to happen with an early pick anywhere but QB you're doing something wrong.
Rotoworld quoting Cimini's Twitter account, Jets promoted NT Marvin Tevaseu from their practice squad. Tevaseu looks the part of a prototype 3-4 nose tackle at 6-foot-2, 325, but hasn't played in an NFL game since going undrafted out of UNLV two years ago. The Jets are getting gashed by the run, and Tevaseu might be able to help.
On the outer surface we are like to assume that this is a negative thing, but please allow a smidgen of positive spin. Ellis is likely to have played an important role on the practice field simulating Vincent Wilfork at the nose. Maybe Ellis has earned his way into the rotation and Tevaseu is being brought up to replace him in that regard.
Ellis was the rookie I was most impressed with from the preseason game,he really flashed that athletic ability and made some really nice plays.I'd even say that he looked better than Wilkerson although he was doing it against the 2nd and 3rd stringers.It's a far cry from Ducasse who just looks terrible in preseason. Although you also saw how raw he was in technique and at times a lack of strength.I think he probably needs an offseason programme in order to get stronger and a set of OTA's to focus on staying disciplined when it comes to technique. I really have to question the thinking behind those claiming he's already a bust.He's a 3rd round pick 3-4 NT.With half the teams playing 3-4 in the NFL,do you really think he'd last to the end of the 3rd round if teams thought he could start or contribute in a major way after just 5 games?It's perfectly acceptable to for a mid round pick to take a year or two before they are ready to start/make a difference. I also liked the look of MTV from preseason.Really strong and could command the double team,It wouldn't surprise me if he could out bench the rest of the d-line.Struggled to get off blocks though,if you could combine MTV's strength with Pohua's technique then you'd probably have a stud NT. I think MTV's more likely to be active over Ellis just because of experience and being less raw.I'm not too sure what we were doing when Pohua went off,we were probably putting a DE in at NT or asking Pohua to play more snaps than he probably should.Either way we'll probably have a 2nd NT now active on game day,hopefully that gives us more flexability and with the rotation and keeps guys fresher.
I'm kinda confused about your philosophy. I know yer against trading-up for players who have immediate impacts, even when in hindsight, players turn out to be All Pros (e.g. Revis). And now yer saying that you don't want to wait for mid-round/Day 2 draftees to develop. It sounds like yer idea of a good Draft is the perfect Draft, and that's just unrealistic. No?
Total disaster. Utter disaster. I hated Bryan Thomas for so hard and so long, but he finally redeemed himself. Far too late, of course. You need more from a first rounder than he gave. You could call it a disaster. Fucking ridiculous comment. What in God's name do you want from somebody at the bottom of the third round? And why in God's name would you single out this pick as the disaster pick of 2005? Mike Nugent? Justin Miller? Were those successful draft picks because they saw the field more and earlier than Pouha? What the hell, man?
Wait, you're telling me Tevaseu couldn't practice with the team when he was on the practice squad? That's news to me.
Yes. Neither Thomas nor Pouha was a good, immediate value pick. However, that's a far reach from 'disaster'. A disaster is a player who is never able to contribute. A player who doesn't really step up until his second contract is a poor draft pick, but it's not a disaster. Thomas was a worse situation than Pouha to be honest. He provided just enough of a lift at the end of his first contract to be awarded a second, only to disappear again for a year. He's been underrated by the fan base for the past few seasons, but he's certainly never lived up to his draft status either way.
