I really hope that is the phantom vote of confidence before they show him the door. A Good OC and Rex can be the next Cowher/Fisher, in tenure terms.
Nowhere in any of my posts and certainly not in the one you quoted did I say that Schotty is not a problem. And you do not address the simple fact that RYan has said he wants to run the ball and that Schotty reports to him. If you supervise someone, and tell him to do A, and he does B, and you do nothing about that, is that his fault or yours? Conversely if he does A and it does not work, is it his fault or yours?
I said it above. They're both ultimately Rex's fault. But..Schotty should be able to make the running game work... The problem is they way you go about it. You can spread out teams out early, protect your deficient line, and then beat on the Defense late when they're gassed. Like we got ground and pounded at the end Sunday night. At the end of the day, that's what Rex is looking for. Schotty's JOB is to find the way to make that happen, and he can't. He's apparently just not very imaginative.
Exactly. As I've written a few times in this thread, "The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence." Like I said yesterday, fire him. I don't care. I don't have to feed his kids. But be prepared to start facing facts when the offense still doesn't perform. I'm not saying Schotty isn't a problem. I'm saying he's not the only problem. You dug for that one didn't you? I know you did because I remember when he tweeted it. He was basically saying that all Sanchez is getting is 3 steps, so Schotty needs to find ways to get the ball out of his hand more quickly. The head coach is denying it happened. The team is denying it happened. Schotty is still here, and the players, including the QB, are still publicly stating that they thought they had a good gameplan and the best practice of the year last week. Obviously people lie. Personally, if you want my honest belief, there are people in the locker room that aren't happy with Schottenheimer. Maybe even the head coach. How do they fix it though? It can't be that they fire him now unless the organization resigns themselves to giving up on the year. After this year ends they have to evaluate whether Sanchez is really the guy. If so, Schotty probably has to go. Otherwise, the opposite is true. They're not really compatible. Brees is a QB who would thrive under Schotty. Not Mark. Rex has gotten to the AFC Championship in both of his years here. He's obviously done a reasonably good job. However, teams are starting to figure him out now and the D isn't performing. Tired or not, it's on him to get his guys to stop the opposition. If Schotty is a key factor in the failure of the offense, Rex and Pettine are as much a factor in the D's problems. It can't be different rules depending on who people like/dislike. Yes, I think we win 2-3 more with him than giving the job to Callahan right now. As for Callahan, yes, I want him to go with Schotty. Start new, or don't change anything. Again, I've never said Schotty isn't a problem, and it's tiring repeating that. At the same time, the offense is clearly failing in execution on the field. Denying that is counterproductive. Dropping balls that hit you in the hands is on the player, not the coach. The defense swarms the line every play. It's been that way for a long time. There's a reason for that, and watch going forward. It's Sanchez's fault. Every single play gets down to 1-2 seconds on the play clock. That makes it ridiculously easy to crowd the line for a defense because you just send a blitz every play. You know with 1-2 seconds on the clock when you can get the jump on the snap. It has to come within the next two seconds. Every single time. So defenses have been jumping the snap every play. People were blaming Schotty for getting plays in late. The problem isn't delayed playcalls. It's Sanchez taking far too long to read the defense before every snap. That is why the hurry-up is more successful for him. Not because it takes Schotty out of the playcalling, because it doesn't, but because it takes away the option of Sanchez staring around like a deer in headlights at all the 300lb men starting right at him looking for blood. As for game threads, I haven't been to one in more than two years. Cursing at me is a good way to end the conversation. That said, yes, the playcalling is a problem, and you're probably not going to see anywhere where I say it isn't. But not every call is wrong. Burress dropped a ball in his hands where there wasn't even a man on him. No one was near him. He just let it bounce off his hands. Then he laughed his way back to the huddle. That's coaching? I like his play designs for the most part. It's the timing of the playcalls I have issues with. The only designs I can't stand are the pre-snap motion (all but gone) and the reversals/wildcat/trickery garbage. Moore's job as consultant is to watch film and comment on what should/shouldn't work. How would he improve things assuming he's doing what he's supposed to be doing? If he's telling Schotty what should and won't work, and things aren't working, what qualifes him to take over?
Exactly. Rex is in charge. He's "interferred" before. So where is the problem? If Schotty continues to have not just his job, but the support of his direct superior, who is to blame? Exactly. I don't know why this has to be repeated so often.
So get rid of Rex? I'd rather keep Rex. I think Tannenbaum has to step in and tell Rex to give Schottenheimer the boot if Rex is truly too loyal to let him go, but then again I think Rex knows Schotteheimer is not doing his job to get the offense running. Their are far less talented teams that are doing better than us offensively, the blame falls into the lap of the guy running the offense. It's Rex's fault for not getting rid of him in the off-season but it's definitely Schottenheimer's fault for not only never having these guys prepared but not using the talent he has and finding what they're good at and actually building the offense around them. He hasn't done no such thing. We're too predictable with our playcalling, it's been a problem for a while and this year it's all imploded on us. 28th ranked offense, just started to run in NE, passing plays are way too conservative, play designs don't make sense and group 3 receivers in the same area. This off-season we need to get rid of Schottenheimer, draft a WR, sign an RT, and find an offensive coordinator who is good at using his players strengths and is good at designing plays that keep defenses off balance.
Since we've been lucky enough to have Schotty at OC starting back in 2006 we've never even cracked the top 10 in total offense. 2006- 25th 2007- 26th 2008- 16th 2009- 20th 2010- 11th So far in 2011 24th PPG 2006- 18th with 19.8 2007- 25th with 16.8 2008- 9th with 25.3 2009- 17th with 21.8 2010- 13th with 22.9 2011- 13th with 24.2 Obviously last year was our best year on offense, but still if any other coach has been consistently mediocre he'd be gone. This is his 6th year with us as OC and his system is a QB killer and is not productive. You would think a guy like Rex who is obsessed with these kind of stats would man up and fire his ass. I don't expect anything to happen during the season but after this year I'd be shocked if he wasn't gone. Barring any miracles. Dan Henning's offense finished ahead of us 2 of the 3 years he was OC, but at least Miami had the sense to know what he was doing was not working.
1. Motion shit is almost gone 2. Sanchez usually has good 8 seconds after the motion these days. 3. If you acknowledge that the defenses swarm the LoS on every play, how can you like the play designs? *shaking my head.* 4. Like you said, I accepted that Plax drop was unacceptable, and also that wasn't due to Schottenheimer's fault either. (I believe that one goes straight to Tannenbaum, if you missed it.) That said, I have to question who keeps the players ready for the game. Ultimately Rex is responsible, but who gets bigger blame between Rex and Schottenheimer? 5. Nobody is saying Schottenheimer is responsible for all offensive woes. I know I am not. I am saying that his inept play designs (clustering his threats together - brilliant job, fuckhead) and his inept play calls (like not challenging any defense deep) are hurting the Jets offense more than the players not executing. (Not that players can execute Schottenheimer's juggernaut offensive system masterfully either but that's for another story.)
The minute we got Braylon and started throwing deep it immediately opened up the run game. God knows why we aren't at least chucking some deep. Is Plax really having that much trouble getting off the line? Certainly we can send Holmes deep as well. It's an aspect of our game that is completely gone. I know I've said it a lot but that was one of Mark's attributes that I loved.
With this "rex says run, so he has to thing", are you talking about the NE Game? Or Schotty and his game planning, scheme overall? If you're saying Schotty should get a pass on the most recent NE game game plan because Rex said he wanted to run, well, I guess you can give him a pass. I have been talking about the last 5 years. I am talking about going forward. I think it's far less cut and dry than Rex tells him to run so he has to. We are talking about an NFL game day game plan. Rex can say I want to be a run first team overall. Okay. But do you think Rex gives a shit what Schotty calls or designs game plan wise, if they run or pass, if it puts up 30 points a game? I can tell you he doesn't.
I think it's a complex situation involving at least a few parts, some of which are moving. The path to success in the NFL involves starting out with an overall concept of what you want to do, then getting the right people for that concept, then putting that concept into action. The final part is where the day to day work of the CS and roster preparing for games comes in. But the second part involves the FO in an interplay with the CS. Ryan starts with a concept, which is an aggressive, physical D complemented by a Ground and Pound O that picks its spots in the passing game. So far so good. Now you move to the second stage, which is get the right people for the job. I have a real problem with this stage. I don't think Greene is a dominant RB. I think the OL is much worse running the ball this year. And I mostly am shocked at how less than physical the D is, with some exceptions. Does the FO buy into Ryan's approach? And not just in what they say, or even think, but in what they do? I question that. I get totally that Ryan wants Revis and Cro to anchor the D. But you have to wonder at least to some extent about alot of the other personnel choices on this team. And we don't know what if anything is said differently behind closed doors. But from what we konw about what Ryan has said, and his stated philosophy, what do we make of the following: 1. Lack of OL bench support. Especially after Turner went down. Ryan knows MS is not your quick release kind of Qb. He's not particularly tough, either. Not much for picking up blitzes, we might as well add in there. So how's he supposed to have enough time to wait for Burress or Mason to get open down the field if the OL protection is not there? 2. Greene. We were all hopeful Greene would step up this year, but... We have some third year track record by now for Greene. It does not inspire confidence. Is this the right guy for the Ground and Pound??? 3. Braylon Edwards. First off I know Edwards didn't play is cards right this off season, and he's now hurt, but nobody knew he would get hurt, so throw that out. Here's the question - without taking anything away from Holmes, who was the more physical wideout? Who helped more in blocking? Who took nasty hits and bounced back up? Again, not to take anything away from Holmes, but on the face of it, Edwards was more the Ryan type of player than Holmes. And he's gone. Those are just three examples of where I think the FO is out of synch with Ryan and Ryan's concept of what this team should be about on O. There are many more, I am afraid. Now, just to make it more complicated, I am not saying that Ryan's intended approach is the only one that can work in the NFL. But if he's your HC, it seems its up to the FO to make the right moves, get the right people. Now you come to Schotty. Seems to me given the foregoing that Schotty is caught in the middle. I think he's got to share the responsiblity for whatever input he has on personnel. But once we get into the regular season, he has to work with the players on the team. Here and there, we are talking about some round holes and square pegs, in seeking to reconcile Ryan's concept with what the FO has provided. It's not the only problem. It's not even theoretically insurmountable for an OC to make the most of it and succeed. But it's tough, and those problems will still be there for the next OC when BS leaves.
I would agree here. 1. Ground and Pound specifically dictates that you must be very physical at the line of scrimmage. This in turn means you must have enough fresh blood waiting in line because the linemen WILL get hurt. (That's the price you pay for playing physical football game.) In this regard, this front office has failed beyond miserable during the past off-season (and years before). Not only has the line regressed big time, but also the depth is not replenished at all. Tannenbaum must stop trading his picks away - and learn to have sound draft without having to trade up all the time. Now, on why they neglected the line depth - that blame squarely falls on Callahan. It is more than likely that Callahan recommended Wayne Hunter for the starting RT job, and reported that Jets OL is set at all position. As we have seen, Hunter looks miserable against top tier pass rushing threats. Not only that, but Slauson's play regressed, and Moore's play regressed. If that fault doesn't fall on the OL coach, then I don't know who is responsible for the OL in general. Callahan must not get the promotion under any circumstances - rather, if this streak of accountability issue - or lack thereof - continues, Jets would be wise to find his successor at OL coach. 2. Shonn Greene at this stage looks more like TJ Lite than anything else - but then TJ was once dubbed CMart Lite, so there was a lot of regression in the RB quality. True, he is almost always ganged up at the LoS when he tries to rush, but 1. he lacks elusiveness to evade the tackler's clutch and 2. he lacks the lower frame strength to withstand arm tackles and move on. Now, with the line regressing, it's not hard to understand why his YPC has regressed by a full yard. Still, if he played behind a top notch line, he would still produce respectable numbers - or that's my guess. 3. Defense getting softer - that I have absolutely no clue. The impression till last year was that Jets D was a slow but stout unit, that will wreck havoc on QBs. This year... not so much. They are soft. If at all, since they are not as stout as they once used to be, now that shifts burden on the offense that much more - and the offense is not functioning, so there you have it, 2-3. I have said enough about OL issues and Greene, so I will leave them at that. I also agree with Braylon issue too - Tannenbaum dropped the ball on this one, and the repercussion is severe. It's affecting the passing game AND the running game. Also, he IS the kind of threat Rex needs - tall, fast and physical downfield threat that will stretch the field. He could have played his Michael Irvin impersonation under the current squad, and he could have done that just well enough. *I seriously don't understand why Tannenbaum didn't resign Braylon. He literally WILLED into the endzone, dragging not one, but TWO Patriots defenders while he was at it, in the most critical game of the season. How can you get more physical than that? For that play alone, he should have gotten his extension here in NY.* Still that doesn't exonerate Schottenheimer from his putrid and atrocious play designs and calls on game days. Hell, in playoff game against Patriots, for instance, Braylon was running with Santonio side-by-side then when the pass was coming in the vicinity, knowing he can't grab it, he punched the ball away so it doesn't get intercepted. If he didn't do that, Santonio would have gotten huge reception, but that aside, that's a huge design flaw right there (that was evident even during last year's game.) So Schottenheimer having to deal with the bad cards he's been dealt this year is a pure fantasy - he was doing that horseshit even during last year and the year before.
We need to throw the ball deep a lot more. Even if we don't complete most of them it will show the d we r thinking about it and it will open our run game.
Any chance that Braylon Edwards would sign with the Jets went out the window when Ryan and Tannenbaum were transfixed by the hooded cobra stare of Nnamdi Asomugha who thankfully decided to go trash Philadelphia's chances instead of ours. Freaking cornerbacks. The three teams that spent way too much time trying to get Asomugha in a shortened and crucial free agency period are all looking screwed this year. He brought down the Eagles, the Jets AND the Cowboys all at the same time.
As I said. As it should be. It is extremely rare for the ball to be snapped and the little playclock in the corner of the screen not be red. Seriously. I've been complaining about it since the start of Sanchez's career, and I yell at the TV every week "SNAP THE DAMN BALL ALREADY!" That's squarely on the QB. Shake your head all you want, but you completely ignored what I went to the trouble of detailing. The reason they swarm the line is because it doesn't matter whether it's a pass or run. They send the entire front 7 because when you can jump the snap count on every play, it doesn't make a difference. If your defense is in the backfield before the QB can drop back or hand it off, the play will never develop. You can cheat all day against Sanchez. And everyone does. That's not playcalling. We could reasonably say it's on the player's direct coach to make sure the player is ready for the game. Except, we have a growing body of evidence that the complete lack of discipline goes beyond the wide receivers, beyond the offensive line, beyond the offense altogether. Every unit is making mental mistakes, many resulting in flags that kill our drives or extend our opponents'. Is that not the responsibilty of the head coach? To ensure discipline and focus with his entire team? (FTR, I was vocal that not bringing back Edwards was a huge mistake. I actually loudly advocated bringing back Edwards before anyone else, including Cromartie and Holmes.) There are only a small number of plays (2-3) each week where I say it was a stupid design. Again, those are the trickery plays including Wildcats/reverses/pre-snap fire drills, and the like. Beyond that, I don't disagree with you. I think Schotty makes bad play choices during the game, not always, but often enough. At the same time, the team has to perform. As Simms said during the game on a catch that occurred a yard or two shy of the first down (Keller I think), the receiver has to know where the first down marker is. They never do. Yes, you can yell at Schotty all day for calling short passes, but the player has to run that extra yard before turning around. No one on this team seems to have any spatial awareness. Part of it is coaching, and part of it is just shitty play. Again, I have no issue firing Schottenheimer (and it's getting ridiculous to have to keep typing that) but it won't be a magic wand fixing all of our problems. We'll still suck.
if alio says its true, it must be. i mean, look how often he is right? oh fuck, i think i just ruined my own argument!!!
