Calling him 'one of the most underrated nose tackles in the league' was how you started not too long ago, and I agreed. He's above average. Saying 'everybody should already know' is more simplicity and it's a copout for somebody who doesn't have shit to back up his statement. You're the second biggest homer on this forum, easily. But making arrogant declarations of knowledge without intelligent reasons - nobody's even close to you in that department. Yeah, we have great depth. Depth doesn't mean the starting squad can compensate when it matters. Our starters get too easily taken out of the game when it matters. The past 2 games are perfect examples. Pouha and Devito are good stopgaps and have been for the DL, but they're not among the best in the league at their positions, and only a homer Jets fan would try to make that argument. Blaming defensive deficiencies on the offense is a losing argument. The Jets were able to hold the Pats in the first half because the Pats switched mainly to a passing attack, watch the game again. Once they started running the ball again the game was effectively over. Good, because you'd lose that argument too. Just like Cromartie. At least you're consistent.
I wasn't comparing him to Ducasse so much as I was comparing the excuses to that of Ducasse. Maybe a cheap comparison, but until we actually see this guy wearing an NFL uniform on game day, what do we have? Praise from Rex and some college scouting reports? I think a lot of people are assuming that I have declared him a bust after 5 games. Not so, and I've already said it once in this thread. But we didn't draft 2 defensive trench players with our first 2 picks because we are stacked on the line. Some homers would want you to believe that our starting D-line is 'one of the best in the league'. If they were, they wouldn't have been rendered so ineffective in the past 2 games. We need to see this kid get some reps.
BJ Raji played his entire rookie season with an ankle injury that he sustained before training camp, and still played in 14 of 16 games on a squad that had just converted to a 3 man front. I don't know if I'd use him as an example since it's not quite comparable to not even wearing a uniform. But I know what you mean, plenty of defensive linemen take a while to contribute. But he's not as buried on the depth chart as some people want to make it out to be.
Yeah, I know he was injured but he was a 1st round pick 9th or 10th overall, an upper echelon pick, (can't really research at work, I will get the evil eye just going from memory so excuse the mistakes.....) and didn't set the world on fire. We can agree he was less than stellar. I wasn't trying to be disingenuous, just that it is rare for a guy to be Suh or even come in like Kris Jenkins (his brother, would be a good comparison, if you do not mind comparing Ellis to an UDFA) who played his first 16 and was solid, definitely not spectacular. I suppose Cody would be the better comparison but everyone has mentioned him and he was basically a fat load of crap his first year. To be fair, I thought he would sit the 1st half of the year but I didn't factor in the defense getting pushed around like it has. Also, I am taking your stance a little different than what you originally stated......... You want to see him and it is time because the people in front of him aren't playing well. That's a little different then lets see excuses why he isn't playing. I think you just did that to get a discussion going..............
Good post all around. I took abyz's comments the way you did as well, so it's interesting to see where this discussion has gone. Clearly, I'm a fan of Ellis. And like abyz said, we didn't take him in the second because our front 3 are just that good. And more inclined to agree with your theory as to the CS's mentality. Figured there would be time to bring him along and didn't see our run defense getting eaten up the way it has (nobody did I would think). But it may be time to get him into games now. Only time will tell I guess.
Simplicity isn't a bad thing. You clearly don't know what a homer is. Fatigue is a huge factor here. If you can't see that..."watch the game again". I've never said Mike DeVito is one of the best in the league. In fact, I've been calling him a rotational player forever. He's overachieved and no one should complain about that. Again, fatigue is a huge factor in our run defenses struggle. Losing Bryan Thomas is also a huge blow to this defense. It's funny that you claim you've won an argument 5 games into the season. ...and I'm the homer. Consistently correct about our run defense and the Kenrick Ellis situation.
I didn't deflect anything. If I did anything, I shined light upon the stupidity of this thread - blaming Pouha and DeVito for the struggling run defense is fucking stupid. In your opinion, probably so. It just so happens that your opinion is quickly becoming moot after your recent threads. How do you think I get my "reputation" up? It's the only way I'm allowed to tell faggots to die in a fire. Everyone on this site knows who the three main contributors in the draft forum are... It's just a coincidence that one of them became a moderator. I could honestly careless if a poster is a mod or not. Mack and WW85 are just credible ones that know their shit. I'm still waiting...you've done nothing to back up your faggoty "excuses" argument against Kenrick Ellis.
Not innately. But if you use it in conjunction with ignorance and deflection, it's a sad crutch. Hehe. Look for the guys that get the most defensive about being accused of it. There's other signs, but that's a start. Too bad we didn't use some of that famed depth on the D-line to spell our linemen, eh? Tonight I'll go through all of the snaps that our D-line starters played on Sunday and show you why fatigue certainly wasn't the factor you make it out to be. The Pats went pass-heavy in the middle of the game and gave our run stopper plenty of time to get their wind for the last quarter. And you'll respond with some over-simplistic nonsense that disproves none of it. And you'll tell me you proved me wrong. Like usual. I addressed that already, on page 1. Your reading comprehension sucks, too. Not much of an argument when there's no counter argument. He sucked this week too. Like a fox. Champion of the small mind, and nothing else. Maybe you should post me some 40 times.
Why throw a rookie in for the sake of it when we have more experienced guys up front? Because he was a 3rd rounder? Lets give the guy a chance(Especially in a season where training camp was cut mightily) before we start to throw him under the bus.
You deflected, and you're still doing it. I didn't blame Pouha and Devito for the run defense's struggles, I called into question your idea that Pouha is one of the best NTs in the league. Boink. Deflected. We need a better presence for from the D-line as a whole to mask the deficiencies that the loss of Thomas causes. We don't have an answer in our LB corps, so it has to come from the D-line. Better penetration and breaking the containment that the Pats' O-line (and Raiders for that matter) were getting on us. Your presence in the Jets forum has been a pile of arrogant shit with no legs to stand on and it's been that way for a while. Why should I care how you consider my opinion? Fellatio? Actually, I found it interesting in this thread and in the Cro thread how obviously you have tried to enlist help from people against me, instead of providing a counter argument yourself. That goes hand in hand with your inability to put together an intelligent argument overall in this forum and your tendency to resort to the type of flames that get other people banned by friends who share a certain... common interest. You suck at this.
I get you, Cody is a better example, although the dude was a badly conditioned slob in his rookie year and if that's Ellis' main problem then... well I'll try not to call it an 'excuse' because I don't want certain superhomers to shit themselves about it. Devito and Pouha have both been stopgap types for the past 2 years, Ellis looks to be the answer to replacing Pouha, who overachieves nicely in most cases but sure as fucking shinola ain't one of the best nose tackles the NFL has to offer. We need linemen on the field, it's becoming painfully obvious. If the Pats are able to contain our role-playing linemen this easily, and exploit the edges like they did on Sunday, you know every team left on the schedule took notice. As far as getting a discussion going... well let's just say discussions are on the comeback trail this season. No amount of DIAF is going to keep that from happening now.
Don't you guys get it? The Jets went to the AFC champ game two years in a row and have the luxury to draft players who DO NOT have the skillset to contribute immediately because the Jets will automatically get to the Super Bowl with the same players. By the front office's rationale, there's no need to improve via free agency and the draft like some teams (namely Buffalo and New England) and the Jets can be fucking complacent because Rex's conviction of the team being good alone is enough to get the team back to the playoffs. Front office, are you serious? This front office seriously needs to consider evaluating talent, even for projects. As for Ellis, the Jets took a gamble because they thought the value was there. The guy came out of high school with big time NCAA Div 1 talent. He very well may be a steal. We will see. But Ducasse is a headscratcher to me still.
Kris Jenkins was a piece of shit. First off the guy was elite but not after he came over to the Jets. He played 1 season and he played well but not spectacular. After that he blows out his knee and is too stubborn to take a tendon from a donor (ie Carson Palmer), instead electing to take it from his hamstring!?? He was overweight and it showed by him blowing out his Knee 2 years in a row never the less in the 1st quarter of last years 1st game. Now I not only have to listen to the half retarded Ray Lucas "JUST GIVE HIM THE ROCK YO, JUST BACK THE WELLS FARGO TRUCK ONTO HIS FRONT LAWN PAY THE MAN". Ontop of that I have to listen to Kris Jenkins run his mouth about the jets every week, pretending he had any part of our success. Im telling you now, if Jenkins wasnt a lazy POS and made an attempt to lose some weight while rehabbing, you would have seen our D take shape, and seen guys like PACE do what they were brought here to do. Without a force in the middle everything else is exposed. HEY KRIS HOPE YOUR ENJOYING THE 70MILLION WE GAVE YOU TO PLAY 18 GAMES OVER 3 YEARS YOU FAT BASTARD!!! So I sincerely hope Kendrick Ellis is nothing like the cocky fat waste of life we loved to call "BIG JENKS".
Jenkins was as dominant a force as you could ever hope for when he was healthy. You think he was unspectacular?
With the loss of BT and the fact that BS has no lateral movement anymore, why not show more 4 man fronts??? Pitotuia Devito Pouha Dixon Obviously Ellis can sub out for Devito or Pouha, I just think the jets can actually collapse a pocket with four man rather than throwing the house blitz on 3rd and 17 only to watch Pace and a couple DBs run into a brick wall, while any good QB is able to make a 30 yard completion down the seam.
Yes he was DOMINANT in his hay day in Carolina and he was a very good player his first year here. BUT, for all the money we spent on him he was a HUGE dissapointment. We complain about a pass rush and not having one, but we made moves to fix that a few years back when we picked up Jenkins and Pace, unfortunately with Jenkins NEVER being Healthy we were always left with "stop gaps". Say what you want, but if Jenkins stayed healthy for even 1 year under Rex, we probably would have atleast won 1 title by now. QBs have days to throw because our schemes dont work without a DOMINANT NT, who is able to push the pocket and take on/beat double teams.
At this point I'd welcome more 4 man fronts, anything to get our line from being manhandled like they have been lately. If only to shake up the opposition's game plan. Not sure where your hate for Jenkins comes from, though, although for what we got from him he was overpaid. Call it a gamble by Tanny that never really paid off, something that has not happened often but when it does it bites you.
